Scooter on Ethanol

[bootz1]

So I was watching a show about this cop going after moonshiners, and it got me thinking about moonshine as a fuel..
Does any1 know anything about running a scooter on ethanol?
I did some reading and apparently engines can run on it. Be pretty interesting to try and do I think...

So, anybody got anything?

[johnny248]

I've seen a lot of people running their turbo cars on e85. It has a higher octane rating somewhere between 100-105, and the stoich ratio is richer for e85. Where gasoline is like 14.7:1 , E85 is 9something:1 so you need to run a richer fuel mixture and these guys are getting some serious power out of them

[bootz1]

Oh, now I think about it the V8 Supercars racing series run from here and Aussie use E85 race fuel...

[MrJumps]

E85, I would think, would be very hard to properly set up for a carb. Because it has a lower flashpoint. I think it would be more beneficial to use a fuel injection system. To me I would guess you would get a little of a gain on carbed, but fuel injected would yield far better.

[kuromi]

For a drag scoot given a lot of love and care, I'd like to see that

But take care...
Ethanol mixed with petrol (10% of it in UK fuel) can rot your petrol tank if left over the time.

The problem is that ethanol absorbs water from the air and if left, sinks to the bottom of your tank.

Then next time you go for a ride you get a nice shot of rusty ethanol through your carbs.

It's even been known to munch through older tank liners.

[scootfast]

I don't know much about running a scooter on hooch. But I know a lot about making it. I'd rather buy gas and drink the shine. Just my opinion. Any questions on making shine lmk.

[Johnniespeed]

Racing fuel is easily available it comes in leaded and unleaded, and has no corrosive effect, this would be my choice rather than try to reinvent the wheel with E-85.
The go kart guys build alcohol engines and seem to do okay on the track, have not seen anyone try this for the street.
Raising octane by itself just doesn't have that much gain until a specially built engine set up for it is combined.
If you choose to build an E-85 engine and fuel system, please post lots of pictures.
For what its worth, the flex fuel vehicles currently available, have a complex fuel management system that samples the alcohol density the special computer adjusts the timing, fuel trim ( mixture ) constantly. There is no way I want to spend my lifetime attempting to engineer a system like that, even if I were that smart, I would rather just ride my fastest scooter.
I do admire that you want to think outside the box.
How about a KX500 engine in your scooter ?
How about a CR250 engine in your scooter ?

[johnny248]

Yeah but the flex fuel vehicles need to know what is running through it in order to increase fuel pressure, injector pulse, etc when it detects the e85. If you are building something that will run only on e85, its not had hard. Essentially you just need to get the air fuel ration to that 9ish:1 in order for it to work properly. Upjet upjet upjet and maybe advance the timing a little.

[Johnniespeed]

johnny248, have you built a two stroke E-85 yet ? How did you combat the corrosion issues ?
Any jetting information would be great.
I still think the gains would be so small that the effort is not worth it.
Why not just install a KX500 engine ? Now that gain would be noticeable.

[johnny248]

I have not. But being a boat owner I have read much about problems with ethanol. I think that the majority of your problems with corossion comes from ethanaols ability to collect water. In engines that get used a lot it is not really a problem. It's the ones that sit around a lot, or older machines with old rubber . Fresh build on e85 on an engine that gets used regularly shouldn't be a problem.

I'm not saying that it is the right thing to do, in just saying that it wouldn't be a big deal to do I don't think. There is nothing really special about making it work. You can bump up compression and timing a little bit because of the octane level. Increase the fuel/air mixture and that is pretty much it. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that you will have to use a 2t oil that is compatible with a high level of ethanol. I don't know if 2t oil that is compatible with alcohol is an easy enough option.

I haven't done this, nor do I consider myself an expert my any means , but the theory of using e85 over e15 is not much different.

[birdman]

I think an e85 tune for a 4t would be good. a turbo or s/c gy6 150 on e85 could be good and not too hard to set up.