94 honda elite big bore kit???????

[ZMUD]

I bought a 94 elite 50s/sa50p with 3000mi on it for $25.00(yes $25)and it has a bad cylinder. i was looking on ebay and they have a 66cc big bore kit for it. Has anyone run that jug and do I need to look out for anything by doing this?I would think I would have to rejet but this would be the first big bore kit i've done on a scooter. any input would be great!!!

[Wheelman-111]

reetings:

Congratulations on a great Elite score. If you mean DayWOT's 66 cc (44mm cylinder), I do not recall anyone posting results and only one Forum member who had purchased the kit but then decided not to install.

Certainly it will require less radical mods than the full 47mm (up to 52mm) BBKs, but an upjet will be required. One is required anyway, if your SA50P is to be de-restricted. The P muffler header has a washer welded in that can be ground out. The variator has a restrictor plate attached by three 7mm machine screws, all of which can be discarded. Doing so, you must replace the stock #68 "S-model" jet with a #78 from the "SR". Honda part number 99101-187-0780 You could go larger still, and I'd recommend you order -0820, -0850, and -0880, all of which you can get from Honda. Then as you proceed, you'll have something more appropriate to install into the carb.

If the kit is from Polini, it should come with an unknown-size larger-than-78 main jet. Ask the vendor to be sure. If you do all this, you should seriously consider 9:1 secondary gears - also available from DayWOT and others.

Welcome to the Forum.

[ZMUD]

thanks for the input. that was the kit from daywot I was talking about. I did see another guy selling a 50mm big bore kit also. I did tear the motor down and somebody already removed the washer in the exhaust and I removed that plate on the clutch. I'm just having a hard time decideing on which kit I want. What would you guys recommend the daywot kit or this kit....?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Honda-SA ... leQ5fParts

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Make sure your main jet is at least a 78 before you ride now.

The 66 would be fine with stock carb and exhaust. You really should add 9:1 gears if you get that one.
Such a scooter well-tuned would top 55 and last a long time.

The 50mm may be of lesser quality than Polini's product. To exploit all its potential, at least a pipe and 8.4 gears would be advised. With the stock carb it may be a bit tougher to tune. That means needing an intake and bigger carb. With all that installed and good tuning a top speed approaching 70 becomes possible, but the taller gearing invites consideration of a ZX rear pulley to restore take-off and larger variator to maximize top speed. It'll need more than 70:1 oil premix + pump or a switch to straight 32:1 and a pump plug. At last, such an engine approaches the limits of the stock cooling system, and may not be as reliable long-term.
Your budget, tuning skills and performance goals will determine your choice.

[ZMUD]

Thanks wheelman for all the advise. I'm not looking to do 70 but 55 will do. i'll def. change that jet and order the 66cc kit. if I don't change the gearing right away what top speed do you think i'll see? what is the stock ratio? and my friend also has the same year elite and everything is the same but his has a split cable for the carb and oil injection, seeing that I don't have the split cable is this going to create a problem with the big bore kit for oil delivery?

[bakaracer]

stock gear ratio is 12to1 so you might see a 45 to maybe 50mph top speed.if using the stock variator speeds will be slower.if you don't have the split cable,tie open the lever on the oil pump.there is an arrow on the pump and line the arrows up.use a zip tie.change that jet asap as its running lean.get the 85 jet and punch the tab out on the snorkel on the airbox lid as only 1 hole is open.that should give you some extra punch.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Checking the '94 parts fiches here, the oil pumps are not the same. Middle section of the Part Numbers are GZ5 and GS7 for the SR and S models respectively. I suspect our new friend ZMUD's pump doesn't have a lever to Zip-Tie. That in turn suggests that the stock "P" model pump is set to deliver a fixed rate of oil flow. Given the restricted engine's low-revving design, I would think the oil flow rate calibration would be considerably less than what the SR pump delivers Zipped wide open.

To convert to an SR system, you'd need the correct pump, a cable bracket and a split throttle cable. I happen to like the idea of an RPM + Throttle position control pump, of course supplemented by the appropriate dose of additional premix oil to feed your Mighty BBK. Therefore I recommend you source these items here on the Forum if possible.

Clearly it would be simpler to pull the pump and plug the hole, but then you're stuck with 32:1 at idle (probably too much oil) and 32:1 in the midrange, 32:1 at WOT...

[ZMUD]

the oil pump has GS7V on it.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

That confirms it's the "P" model of the SA50, or the Elite "S" badge on the side covers. If my logic above is correct, there's a good chance that it's an under-achieving pump. Curious that there's a bracket to hold a pump cable that doesn't come on this model. The bracket isn't listed in the parts fiche for either model. If you stay with that pump, proceed with caution along with an extra measure of premix oil.

[ZMUD]

do you think running the splitter cable would be good or should i zip tie the thing wide open and pre-mix lightly? there are no marks of there ever being a oil cable but why would they put that there?

[evilone]

My 94 SA50P came with the bracket too, so i installed a split cable

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The bracket helps locate the pump. Honda-san surely could have engineered one without the cable tang, but probably thought it cheaper to stamp out more of the same part.

When. Looked, I could not find one in any online Fiche. Fortunately, the one from my Aero fit Flash IV perfectly. One less thing to source.

Because the flow rate of the "P" pump is undetermined, consider getting an SR pump & cable or plug the pump socket and premix @ 32:1. You can sell your pump and make back a couple bucks.

[bakaracer]

he is fine with the pump thats on there now.but yes add a ounce per gal to the gas tank.there is a line on the pump and a arrow on the lever and line those up if using zip ties.If you can get a split cable for cheap then put one on.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Baka says you're fine with the P pump, which has a different part number from the SR's and one would have to presume a lighter rate of flow because of the low-revving, understressed nature of the "P" model for which it is specified. Unless there's comparative output data and/or direct experience out there, that seems risky to me.
To the best of my knowledge, nobody has compared the outputs of the various pumps, so direct experience is the next best thing.

Aero pump + 60:1 oil premix (2 oz/gallon) allowed 2 65cc BBKs to survice Wheelman abuse. Ditto for the SR pump + 70:1 in Flash III - now at 1000 miles on the Nikasil. Is the "P" pump sufficient to do the same? Maybe, but proceed at your own risk. If successful, please share. Even more so if not.