New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

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New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:04 pm

Hi,
I'm Richard, living in the south east of France (the sunshine place :wink: ).
I do have some vocabulary lacks but I learn quickly. :blah:

I just bought an Aero 50 2 days ago. It's called Honda Vision 50 (NB50) here. The engine is the AF05E (markings on the engine case).
As all 50cm3 mopeds and the like, it is speed restricted to 45km/h (~30mph).
It is a first owner from august 1986 and had covered only 875 kilometers!
Apart from some light scratches due to storage, it's just like new.
The tires and rubbers are all original and like new (nothing dried or cracked or whatever).
The guy had purchased this scoot in '86 and a couple of months later got a job in New Caledonia. The thing sat in a dry garage for all those years and has never been droven in bad weather or rain.

Prior to my buying, he had Honda do a service to it. What a bunch of loosers... :*:
They "lost" all the screws of the airbox except one, the air filter is not the good one (it clogs the air inlet and doesn't allow the cover of the airbox to be able to fit, reason for not putting back the screw IMO), they lost one screw holding a side cover, another one which holds the air box on the "crank case", another screw on the fairing was breaking loose...anyways, I'm starting everthing over again (no confidence!) to be sure...
The battery is new (sealed type), the tank is like new inside (good storage conditions).
They are supposed to have changed the engine oil (it is clean) and the transmission oil (I didn't see a plug to drain it by the way???)

I also plan on derestricting the thing because it's soooo slow...it doesn't ride very well around the 30ish mph.
Maybe due to the air filter blocking air inlet.
I am used to driving : Honda XLR 125, 1100 Honda ST (with a side-car), a Suzuki Bandit 1200 S and a Suzuki GSX 1400 (don't think you got that on your market, it's a sort of Yamaha 1300 XJR), hence the difficulty of supporting the low speed...
I know I'm not going to break any speed records with this but I'd like to gain like 5 to 10 km/h.
I had to buy this because of a drivers licence suspension (3 months to go...) for excessive speed while overtaking some cars and a truck. :eyeroll:

But I may keep this scoot after because I already like it and a 26 year old "moped" that's just like new is funny. :love:

So, I think I'll name this scoot "The Thing".
Seems to stick to it...everybody is making fin of me on this little bike, but I'm enjoying it! :lol:

Today, I pulled the variator apart (the part on the crankshaft) and saw that I had the flat plate in it.
Seems that I should change this to get more speed.
I can see that the belt doesn't use all the height in the plate.
Would you know what the Honda part number should be because in France I'll only find the restricted part number...
The belt is still the Honda original part and is not cracked a least! :2thumbs:

I checked the main jet and have a N┬░80. Is it good enough? My dealer can have a N┬░82 as standard (why???) and not N┬░80 on his parts list.
What would you recommend?

I'm a bit confused after reading all the tips on the forum...

I just finished taking out the restrictor in the exhaust.
It had a tiny 10mm hole and without it we now have 19mm for gas flow. :geekdance:
Better.
This thing is going to breathe. :jack:

I have got some pictures of all this and will put them on the forum ASAP.

As soon as The Thing (lets name it "TT", it will be shorter and more convenient) is cleaned and ready I'll do some shooting pics. :peace:

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by 66SIX » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:49 pm

Photos would be great ... And if you think your Aero is slow try riding a Spree ...

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:29 am

As TT is spreaded in the garage at the moment :surprise: , I'll use the sellers ad on our sort of Craigslist here :
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/358571757.htm?ca=21_s

You have a global view of TT.

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:24 am

So here come the pictures :
Mileage (in kilometers of course) :
Image
Image

No high beam because of previous laws concerning "mopeds" here in France.


No air restrictors in the air inlet :
Image
Image
On the 2nd pic, I have taken off a sort of cover to see the inlet.

No plugs :
Image

The muffler before :
Image
Image

After :
Image
Image

The restrictor :
Image
Image
Image

Dimensions are in metric (mm).

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:30 am

A couple of views of the inside :
Cylinder
Image

Rings
Image
They don't look too clean for such a low mileage. :confused: Too much oil feed? Bad oil? Non synthetic oil used in the 80's?
I had a look in the shop manual and didn't find anything on the oil feed adjustment...am I wrong?

Piston half way up :
Image
Not too clean too. Oil seems to be passing by the rings. Sticky rings because of a long period sitting?

Piston up :
Image

Couldn't get better pics because the head of my endoscopic camera is too big.
Image

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:36 am

And now my variator :
Image
Image
Image

There is no restriction on the rear part :
Image

But there is on the front part as we can see :
Image
Image

Lets take it apart :
Image
Image
Image

Position at rest :
Image
Image

Supposed position at full speed :
Image
Image

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:43 am

Open up :
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

As I have read, to unrestrict :
1) Some say take the back plate (the one held by 3 screws) off.
Ok.
But the grease is going to spread everywhere?
Clean it and make it ride dry.
Yeah, but is this thing ok to be run dry?

2) Some say to change the ramp plate. But I can't find one alone. You do find these un restricted ramp plates but with the whole variator and as performance kits :
http://vtcycles.com/vtc_plugins/e107sho ... ct=3&cat=4
I'd rather find a Honda original unrestricted part.

Which one of the above is the way to go for my Aero?

My question :
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... 66#p219466

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by S4Patrick » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:03 am

Hello & welcome...

Nice looking Vision....just when I thought i saw all the different speedometers on the Aero/ Vision, another one shows up. (no bright light indicator & arrows in place of the word "turn")

Yeah, I can see that your ramp plate is far different that the U.S. spec version. I just looked up the parts diagram for the 1986 Aero 50 for the U.S. version ramp plate--it's been discontinued.

http://www.discounthondaparts.com/fiche ... veh=123485

The original stock U.S. spec variators do show up on Ebay from time to time.

Here are a couple on Ebay now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-Honda-NB50-A ... 2c&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-HONDA-NB50-N ... c0&vxp=mtr

There's more parts than you need in those auctions, but they're OEM ones and you can kind of see what the U.S. spec ramp plate looks like in the pictures.

As for aftermarket variators, I would highly recommend you installing one on your Aero/ Vision.....in place of the stock one. It will give you a bit more take-off power, as well as a nice little bump in top speed. If you're going to use the variator that's currently in your Aero/ Vision, do indeed clean out all that grease, you will notice the bike will be a lot more torque "off the line" and "may" bump your top speed up a tiny little bit. (you can leave a little bit of grease in there, but most use none these days)

As for you un-restricting the exhaust, that's good, but I would check into what MAIN JET is currently within your carburetor. You're more than likely going to have to install a slightly larger MAIN JET to better fuel the engine as you un-restrict the engine. De-restricting the stock exhaust as you have should bring some nice mid-range power from the engine, as well as a higher top speed. Also, get a new OEM air filter element/ foam in the air box.

Hope this helps and post up some more pics of your Vision!

~Patrick
'87 Aero 50 STOCK (only 350miles)
'87 Aero (AF16 Corsa-PG-Short-OKO24mm-8.44)
'86 Aero (AF16 Corsa-SEF Black-OKO21mm-8.44)
'98 Live Dio ZX - 50th Anniversary Edition 68cc
'92 Super Dio ZX - AF18 Corsa

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:14 am

S4Patrick wrote:Hello & welcome...

Nice looking Vision....just when I thought i saw all the different speedometers on the Aero/ Vision, another one shows up. (no bright light indicator & arrows in place of the word "turn")
What's the bright light you're talking about? The high beam?
Yeah, I can see that your ramp plate is far different that the U.S. spec version. I just looked up the parts diagram for the 1986 Aero 50 for the U.S. version ramp plate--it's been discontinued.

http://www.discounthondaparts.com/fiche ... veh=123485

The original stock U.S. spec variators do show up on Ebay from time to time.

Here are a couple on Ebay now:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-Honda-NB50-A ... 2c&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/85-HONDA-NB50-N ... c0&vxp=mtr

There's more parts than you need in those auctions, but they're OEM ones and you can kind of see what the U.S. spec ramp plate looks like in the pictures.
BTW : Just for information, when I look for spares or performance parts, I get better results when looking for the Peugeot Rapido (other name : ST50).
Honda and Peugeot worked together for scoots! :wink:
So, here is a sort of cousin of the Aero 50 :
http://www.leboncoin.fr/motos/358220696.htm?ca=21_s
The exhaust is the standard one for the Peugeot Rapido (it is still restricted even with the sports look... :*: ). It's called Cobra.
The ST50 had a less "sportier" look ( :jack: ).
Everyday, you learn something. :naughty:

So, :b2t: , the Ebay variators are more expensive than a Malossi Multivar here in Europe. :nerd:
The drawback is that in case of a checkup by the insurance, they will quickly see that it is not a Honda part...if I can find a non restricted ramp plate, they won't be able to see the difference. I prefer... :naughty:

Do I keep the 3 screw plate behind the variator with the non restricted ramp plate?
As for aftermarket variators, I would highly recommend you installing one on your Aero/ Vision.....in place of the stock one. It will give you a bit more take-off power, as well as a nice little bump in top speed. If you're going to use the variator that's currently in your Aero/ Vision, do indeed clean out all that grease, you will notice the bike will be a lot more torque "off the line" and "may" bump your top speed up a tiny little bit. (you can leave a little bit of grease in there, but most use none these days)
So, my options :
1) I keep my restricted ramp plate and get the 3 screw plate behind off (that will give the maximum speed possible?), clean all the grease and have it work in a dry mode.
2) or do I buy a non restricted ramp plate and keep or take off the 3 screw plate behind (big difference??? worth it?)
3) Finally I can buy a performance variator with some risks in case of an accident...
4) maybe I can just pick up the ramp plate in this performance variator kit to put it in my Honda variator??? Performance and original looks. But are the parts compatible?
As for you un-restricting the exhaust, that's good, but I would check into what MAIN JET is currently within your carburetor. You're more than likely going to have to install a slightly larger MAIN JET to better fuel the engine as you un-restrict the engine. De-restricting the stock exhaust as you have should bring some nice mid-range power from the engine, as well as a higher top speed. Also, get a new OEM air filter element/ foam in the air box.
The main jet is 80. My dealer only found 82 on his parts list?
What would you recommend?
Hope this helps and post up some more pics of your Vision!

~Patrick
The pics will come in as soon as the mechanical part is finished.

Thank you and awaiting more of your input for the above questions.

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by zuphilius » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:25 am

Try looking for a Honda Ruckus, AKA Zoomer, variator, Honda part, so it will look stock to your insurance guys.

Also, leave the grease out, it will give you more speed and works fine. Honda stopped putting grease in later model scooters.

You'll have to shave a small amount off of the case just in front of the variator, but it will be worth it.
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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by eliteguy50 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:37 am

The performance of shaving the case (use a small rotary grinder, Dremel is a popular brand here) is worth it to use the Zoomed variator. If you get inspected, that fresh ground area would raise suspicion right away.
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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by eliteguy50 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:39 am

You could paint the inside. That would make everything look the same. Are there legal issues with painting parts differently than Honda did?
motormike wrote:Errands become adventures.

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:46 am

Well, I'm not into shaving off part of the casing and stuff...I aim to put the Aero back into a non restricted configuration and not a "high ( :lol: ) performance" thing.
OK, I'm taking the back plate off and cleaning the grease.
After redoing the idle richness screw setting, I'll have it run on the central stand to see if the belt goes all the way up in this mode.
If it doesn't I'll try the non restricted plate without the back plate.

What about my main jet that is an 80?

Still waiting for my parts from the Honda dealer... :hi:
I'm changing the air filter element, the belt casing gasket, putting back some missing screws...

How do you drain the transmission? I didn't see anything on that in the shop manual uploaded here.

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:47 am

No issues in painting parts, BUT the question of araising the suspicion of the insurance guy IS an issue though...

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Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by S4Patrick » Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:27 pm

Thanks for the link & info on the Peugeot Rapido! A Rapido that's not so "rapido"...lol.... :lol:

-----

Yes, as for my reference of "bright lights" I mean a high-beam setting. Can you change the light bulb within the headlight housing or is it a one-piece configuration? Meaning that the entire headlight housing has to be changed, not just the bulb....

-----

I think a stock MAIN JET for the Aero 50 here in the U.S. is 82---someone else may be able to verify this MAIN JET size. As for using an Aero 80 JET, I'm not sure about compatibility, perhaps Bear (knowledgeable forum member) can verify this for you.
(I'm thinking the Aero 80 JETS are not compatible with the Aero 50 carbs)

-----

Transmission/ rear gear box oil:
The location of the drain plug is just past the rear driven clutch. It's on the cover where the engine code is stamped. (engine code AF05XXXXXX) It's just above the rear brake "arm".

There's a series of 8mm bolts around the outer perimeter of the "trans cover plate", then 1 12mm bolt. The 12mm bolt/ plug is "kind of" near the center of the "trans cover plate". That 12mm bolt is the drain plug. If you remove it, oil will come out. No easy way to drain all the oil with the "tarns cover plate" still on, so you're just going to have to tip the bike to its side for a little time and let it drain out.

Got it?

-----
So they're that tough over there about modifications and the speed on these scooters over there? So tough and concerned that they would open up the transmission and inspect it?

On the variator, if insurance concerns are that critical, then I would simply go with a U.S. spec stock variator....it's good for 40mph maybe a tad bit more......and it's a stock Honda part. And you're not doing anything wrong--at least they're probably never going to know.

Perhaps someone here can sell you a U.S. spec stock variator & ramp plate (or just a ramp plate) for less money than what's currently on Ebay. Or, just bite the bullet and buy a stock variator from Ebay. Who knows how people come up with their prices on Ebay....sometimes there's deals, other times there's people with crazy-high prices.

On just replacing the ramp plate on your existing variator, you could buy this one:
(just verify that this is for use on the stock variator)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/POLINI-MODIFIED ... 27&vxp=mtr

Not too bad, as it gives you three different types of roller weights to work with within this kit.
HA! It even has the Peugeot Rapido listed as a bike that this is for~!

I'm curious, what's the roller weight (of each roller) within your current variator? (U.S. spec is 10.00 grams each)

Hope this helps....

~Patrick
'87 Aero 50 STOCK (only 350miles)
'87 Aero (AF16 Corsa-PG-Short-OKO24mm-8.44)
'86 Aero (AF16 Corsa-SEF Black-OKO21mm-8.44)
'98 Live Dio ZX - 50th Anniversary Edition 68cc
'92 Super Dio ZX - AF18 Corsa

Visit: http://www.airtoolsforless.com

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