New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

The place to discuss rides, accessories, or whatever is tangentially Spree/Elite-related

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by Meatball »

Like Wheelman111 suggested, I think you should address the issue of the belt not reaching the top of the drive face. Its very possible that the old belt is the culprit. Install the new belt and give it a run and report back. The belt should reach the top of the "ramped" section of the drive face...not 2/3 or 3/4.

Also, 12:1 ratio is not ideal for top speed. Im guessing that youd only see about 37mph with those gears. My AF05 has 10:1 and does 41-ish.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
cancunia
Spree
Spree
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:45 am
Location: Lincolnshire, England

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by cancunia »

I think I've hijacked this thread a bit too much so have moved onto the other thread I was posting on.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=27885&p=300050#p300050

Apologies to GSX1400 for the hijack!
GSX1400
Spree
Spree
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 »

I'm following your tracks!
GSX1400
Spree
Spree
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 »

Hi everybody!
TT was in sleeping mode since end of 2017. I was experiencing carb problems again.
I decided to take it apart today and start working on it.
The carb went to the ultrasonic cleaner (there was a little dust in the bowl) and when I took it out, I didn't pay attention and lost the brass part in which the needle goes up and down! I don't know the name.

Part N°2 here : https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists ... d_f26d.gif

NLA on this website. Where in the world am I going to find this???

If you guys would be of some help...
I'm * off with being so careless!
GSX1400
Spree
Spree
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 »

God of mopeds heard me crying...I just found the lost part (going over the whole place for the 50th time...). It had fallen in the earth and grass between the garage and the backyard where I'm tinkering.

Reassembled the whole carb and still doesn't work well. The spark plug is always humid and the engine dies. I tried full throttle and it dies. It can idle a bit when cold (and electric choke doing the job) but as soon as the choke goes off, the engine starts to lower its idle and dies. The only way to keep it running is to keep opening and closing the throttle all the time. I managed to keep it running jut opening the throttle a bit. That way the engine doesn't die but the rpm's keep going up and down.

WT F word is going on???
User avatar
noiseguy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by noiseguy »

What you're describing is a blocked idle jet. Read up here on cleaning them. I'd also suggest a new spark plug if you haven't replaced it recently.
Admin, Hondaspree.net

Buy air filters and gaskets here (Ebay): http://stores.ebay.com/noiseguysstore
Buy air filters and gaskets here (Amazon): www.amazon.com/shops/spreepower
Buy a t-shirt here: https://teespring.com/stores/spree-powersport-products
GSX1400
Spree
Spree
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 »

Am I wrong thinking the idle jet is not removable?
I cleaned the carb in the ultrasonic machine. All the brass came out like new...good cleaning product. But the carb isn't working better.
If the idle jet is clogged up a bit, would the spark plug be wet?
And it doesn't dry quickly. Maybe because of the oil mixed in the gas it stays humide.

I ordered a new auto-choke to test it...
If it doesn't work, I'll do the idle circuit cleaning.

These carbs are troublesome aren't they??? I have never experienced so much problems with a moped or 50cc carb before. I used to pour my gas in the tank and just ride the moped.

EDIT : the NGK BPR 6 HS spark plug has 5000 kilometers on it and the electrodes don't look used. I clean it every 2000 kms or sooner if needed.

I also ordered a new belt Bando/Honda 23100 gn 2 003. Just in case. :| Feeling so lucky.
Same as the one on it and which is the original one, it has 10000 kms and still looks nice, no obvious cracking. I mostly do road trips (20 to 30 kms) out of the city with it = stabilised speed, no stop and go trafic. Hence the low wear I suppose.
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

The low-speed "jet" is represented by a small bress stand-pipe alongside the Main jet tower. Not inrended to be removed, but it can be done if you are courageous and careful.

Find a drill bit that fits precisely into the brass pipe. Too big and it won't go in of course. Too small and it will leage a gap which will crush the pipe in Step 2.

1. Insert the drill bit into the pipe.

2. Grasp the brass pipe with a locking long-nose plier. (Vise-Grip.)

3. Pull/Wiggle/Twist rhe brass pipe out of its little socket. It is a light press fit, but the brass is easily deformed.

4. Clean the exposed socket and tiny hole in the carb body. A single bristle plucked from a steel brush has served for me.

5. Soak in carb dip or Spray with carburetor cleaner can until satisfied it is clear of resin.

6. Reinsert reversing the procedure. Hope it is tight enough not to drop out.

Bonne chance!
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
motormike
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5488
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:58 pm
Location: Glasgow, KY

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by motormike »

GSX1400 wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:53 am earth and grass between the garage and the backyard where I'm tinkering.
Cardinal RULE: NEVER tinker is the garden with mechanical assembly.
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
User avatar
noiseguy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by noiseguy »

GSX1400 wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:32 am Am I wrong thinking the idle jet is not removable?

I ordered a new auto-choke to test it...
If it doesn't work, I'll do the idle circuit cleaning.

These carbs are troublesome aren't they??? I have never experienced so much problems with a moped or 50cc carb before. I used to pour my gas in the tank and just ride the moped.

EDIT : the NGK BPR 6 HS spark plug has 5000 kilometers on it and the electrodes don't look used. I clean it every 2000 kms or sooner if needed.
Idle jet is not easily removable. Wheelman described how it's done; at worst I use a sewing needle to carefully clear out the jet.

Keep your old auto-choke handy / don't throw it out. The China versions usually are inferior to original, but maybe you get better scooter parts in FR. Wouldn't surprise me.

Your plug needs replaced if it has 5000 km on it. They're cheap and 2 strokes tend to foul plugs.

On that topic; the plug is wet b/c it's oily. You just pulled scooter out from a long rest and I'm betting the bottom end is full of oil. You'll need to run it awhile until it clears out (will also be smoking more than usual if I'm right) and you'll want to replace the plug.

50cc bike ridden regularly have less issues than bikes taken out once a week / month, same as motorcycles and to a lesser extent cars. The oils / seals / gas degrade in storage.
Admin, Hondaspree.net

Buy air filters and gaskets here (Ebay): http://stores.ebay.com/noiseguysstore
Buy air filters and gaskets here (Amazon): www.amazon.com/shops/spreepower
Buy a t-shirt here: https://teespring.com/stores/spree-powersport-products
User avatar
motormike
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5488
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:58 pm
Location: Glasgow, KY

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by motormike »

noiseguy wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:33 am I use a sewing needle to carefully clear out the jet.
This ALSO is a CARDINAL offense...sewing needles are very brittle and subject to EASILY breaking off while inserted to suspect orifice. THEN, you have a major problem.
I will ALWAYS use my "J & L Jet file" to clean idle jets, and possibly a guitar string in a pinch.
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
User avatar
noiseguy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by noiseguy »

motormike wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:53 pm This ALSO is a CARDINAL offense...sewing needles are very brittle and subject to EASILY breaking off while inserted to suspect orifice. THEN, you have a major problem.
Totally agree; it's the last attempt b/f I throw the carb out, but would always do this before trying to remove the idle tube in the manner described. I cleaned probably a dozen of these carbs and only needed to needle one of them... the one time I tried it it worked.
Admin, Hondaspree.net

Buy air filters and gaskets here (Ebay): http://stores.ebay.com/noiseguysstore
Buy air filters and gaskets here (Amazon): www.amazon.com/shops/spreepower
Buy a t-shirt here: https://teespring.com/stores/spree-powersport-products
cancunia
Spree
Spree
Posts: 113
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:45 am
Location: Lincolnshire, England

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by cancunia »

Just thinking that if the spark plug is wet then maybe there's not enough air going via the idle circuit. How many turns out is the idle jet air screw?

I tend to agree that these carbs can be difficult, I've not been riding my Honda much this year due to messing about on another brand of moped but when I did ride it earlier in the year it cut out twice while cruising along, now there's a definite lag when it's revved. At first I thought it had seized but the starter turned the engine without trouble and after a couple of minutes all was fine apart from the lag when revving. It may be an air lock in the tank but then it would be all the time. Hey ho, next year's Honda voyage of discovery is already mapped out!
GSX1400
Spree
Spree
Posts: 266
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 5:59 pm
Location: FRANCE

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by GSX1400 »

Hi everyone and thanks for your feedback. I didn't get notifications to tell me people answered here...

FYI : When I lost the carb part I was taking the carb from the garage to another place in the garden where I have water to clean it after using cleaning products with the ultrasonic machine.
Lesson learned. Hopefully...

Otherwise, I was experiencing problems before stopping the bike. And at that time I was using it many times a week. So, it isn't the unuse that caused a carb problem.

So :
1st I received my new auto choke (had already changed it 2 years ago at Scooter-Center.com). I tried it. Doesn't work better. Of course you may say.
The new choke looks like someone has tampered around with it, marking it with a screwdriver and as if the C shaped plate had been mounted like when you mount the choke on a carb.
I called them to complain about this. They'll send me another one checking it is ok before sending it out. I am supposing that someone ordered this choke and sent it back for whatever reason and I'm the winner of the day.
The behavior of the carb is similar (read lower) as the old choke. Old choke which may be ok after all!

2nd I am going to have to take the carb apart again. I replaced the reed valves gaskets. Honda NOS. They are ok and I did add a very slim engine gasket sealer (grey one). No air leak now (but I doubt there was any before when I had my home made paper gaskets in there). Changed to make sure.
I also changed the 2 O-Rings on the carb inlet to make sure (NOS Honda too).
I'm assuming there is no air leak.

The air screw is out by 1 turn and 1/4th. As per the shop manual.

I started the engine and it seemed to work ok at cold. When heating up, when the choke ceases action, it dies.
If I try revving it, it dies (so worse than with the old choke which would at least allow me to revv up by cutting and opening throttle).

I tried something then : partially covered the air intake leaving about 2/3 or 50% of the air intake free of obstruction.
Test is without the airbox/filter. Carb is naked.
The engine takes up speed and reachs full speed (on the center stand). Leaving the throttle full open, max revs stabilised, if I take my finger off the intake of the carb, then the engine dies, before stalling, if I put back my fingers it'll go up again.

I feel like there is not enough gas coming in.

I did check, previously, that the choke circuit was ok and that the main jet was free. They were.
The idle jet could cause such a problem?
User avatar
noiseguy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 4419
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: South Florida
Contact:

Re: New member from France with a 1986 Aero 50

Post by noiseguy »

Your idle jet is clogged. When you put your hand over the intake like that it's sucking gas through the main jet. You need to clean your carb.
Admin, Hondaspree.net

Buy air filters and gaskets here (Ebay): http://stores.ebay.com/noiseguysstore
Buy air filters and gaskets here (Amazon): www.amazon.com/shops/spreepower
Buy a t-shirt here: https://teespring.com/stores/spree-powersport-products
Post Reply