Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

The place to discuss rides, accessories, or whatever is tangentially Spree/Elite-related

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by Meatball »

Still waiting to see a run with a temp gauge installed. Lets see if it can hold WOT for more than a minute without melting.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

I'll do that in the spring on the road instead of the Dyno. Wanna give it another 100 or so miles on the break in first.
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by Meatball »

I have two extra BBK's I can send you if you kill yours. They both have been soft seized a couple times each but are still usable. If you just want to use them for testing and find their melting point, have at it. They still had compression when they were last used. Toss me a few bucks for shipping and I will donate them to the cause.

Problem is...you shatter one and there goes your bottom end with it.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

What I plan on doing, is just a basic WOT run after a hundred more miles and see if soft seizes. I figure a nice quarter mile run past the event center and back should tell me what I need to know. I'll watch the CHT and back off if it gets to around 375 or so. Have to expect some heat after all. I'll plan it out more the closer spring gets. For now, the Spree is still on display in the showroom at the bike shop till riding season starts.
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by Meatball »

Yes sir. Watch that CHT like a hawk. When mine soft seized, the temps shot up faster than my CHT could display it. It was jumping 20-30deg at a time. Once it seized I checked the temp and it continued to keep rising even though the bike was off! A CHT tells you the temp AT THE PLUG. It does not tell you temp of the jug.

If a heat spike occurs very quickly within the bore, it wont register on the CHT until heat transfers to the temp ring. By then it may be too late to react. If the CHT reads 375deg and you back off, you can bet temps are much higher in the jug....where it matters.

When mine reached its seize temperature(unknown temp-375ish?) and killed the bike, the temps kept rising because it takes a few seconds (im guessing) for heat to transfer from the jug to the CHT for a temp reading.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

I know Taz has mentioned getting his cylinder redone with a thicker wall, and some port timing changes. If anything, I'll hold off and see where he's going with that. Could always have 1man8scoots do some porting work as well. I just really want to be sure it is stable at WOT for the speed run attempt I have planned. With the old worn clutch, the dyno could pull it to 47mph. I would expect with this new clutch it can do better. In my 40mph video, it was doing 40 at 9,900rpm. With the new clutch, it managed it by 2,000 rpm's less, so that was a HUGE impact right there. And I wasn't too far away from the powerband limit either, so that's promising in and of itself, it suggests VERY STABLE at 40mph. I won't attempt that higher speed at this point, because we all seen a few pages back what happens when you beat the heII out of an unbroken in piston. While I appreciate the offer for your old stuff, I think I'd just rather play it cautious no matter what, and let the Spree be capable of what it does for my (son's) personal needs. Also take note of the Leo Vince clutch springs I utilize. I used the 1500rpm blue springs. On retrospect, and I won't find out for sure till on road time.. I might have maybe been better off with the 2,000 rpm springs. I went low because I don't want to risk burning the clutch faster. We set the idle (in the video), all the way up and only managed 1500 before the wheel started spinning the dyno drum. So 1500 rpm Leo Vince Jog springs, is ABSOLUTELY the RPM the clutch will start to bite the bell housing. THIS IS GOOD NEWS TO KNOW, though in my case, the good news tells me there is room for improvement.

If the manual says idle should be 1800rpm, and it bites down at 1500, then it seems it is bogging the idle speed a bit. Shawn was only able to bring it up to 1500rpm with the fast idle screwed all the way in. And the wheel was spinning the drum.. That means it engages too fast, and more then likely, the CORRECT springs would in fact be the red 2,000rpm springs..but...

I got my documented results out there, and I absolutely expect that people can, and will, improve on my final solution to hop up the AF05. I'm tapping out, I have other side projects to tend to over the summer. Ain't putting no more money into this one.

Besides, I got Stan at SS Collision & Cycleworks. I trust his judgement calls. He has been 100% accurate even though at times I didn't listen. I trust that he'll let me know how to proceed with the goal of WOT and Top Speed. And I have the time and patience and willingness to watch and learn what others have done here on the forums to get it right.

So my findings so far RE: Tazland 48mm BBK

I went from a bike that could only pull 23mph, to a bike that can theoretically, achieve exactly 2x that.. I.E. 46mph+... According to the online speed calculator found here:
http://www.49ccscoot.com/calculators.html

If I can get it up to 11,000 rpm, it will do better then 50mph (theoretically). Lets see SOMEBODY do better without doing an engine swap!!! It's VERY possible, but again.. I'm tapping out.

Thanks again EVERYBODY.
Last edited by eclark5483 on Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:32 am, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

P.S. Having Stan switch to the RED springs, no dyno results will be posted, but I'll fill you in.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

I'm going to call this the OFFICIAL BEFORE AND AFTER results for myself personally, your results, of course... may vary.

BEFORE (STOCK 87 Spree):
Image

AFTER:
Image
User avatar
R1Titan911
Elite
Elite
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: FloGrown

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by R1Titan911 »

Almost 100% gain!
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

The nice weather gave me a chance to pick it up from the showroom floor, take it home, and give it some road time. And boy did I take advantage of that before the snowstorm hit.

So the red springs were absolutely an improvement. They catch a bit over 1800rpm, so I was able to set the idle to the correct speed on the tach. Though, I still have a couple of issues I need to fix/tweak.

It's running way too rich on the pilot jet. I have a set of Polini pilot jets arriving any time now that I'm going to try out. Going to use the lowest one first and try tuning my idle air/fuel mix. If I am still running rich, what I'll more then likely do, is switch to the 19mm Polini and put the 21mm into my blue TaoTao.

I find it kind of ironic how the initial problem I was having getting it to run right, was the weak intake system wouldn't allow the engine to take in the air/fuel mix it needed, but now, with the Kitaco intake, it takes in more then it can handle. But on the bright side, I would much rather run rich then lean. Rich is easy to fix.

The second issue, is the launch using Taz gears. Now I'm not sure how much the super rich condition is affecting that, so I'm gonna wait till I get the pilot issues sorting out before tackling the gears. I'll more then likely use the Yellow Leo Vince clutch springs to bring it up a little higher in the power band to help counter that. But then, that's what you get when you go with super high gears, but on the other hand.....

Once it comes off the pilot and you're going about 10mph, throw back that throttle, and prepare for.. WWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've only taken it to a little over 40. It gets there quick, and I was able to maintain that speed on the outskirts of town till I was about out of gas. Had plenty of throttle to spare. CHT readings showed me at 341 degrees max. VERY acceptable!!
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by Meatball »

Id be interested to see what 1man can do to a TAZ bore with his masterful porting skills. It may just unleash a sleeping beast.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

Oh, I know!!! He offered to port it for me when he was doing those reeds and SB50 intake, but because of time constraints I declined the offer. Now I wish I would have. But oh well, just leaves an open opportunity for others to have their BBK ported and running meaner then mine. I'd really love to see some more BBK builds with 12T and 13T gears ported for maximum power. There is no doubt at all that the Taz land BBK can do better then 4 horse.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

Side note: The Polini 21mm CP carb comes stock with a #40 Pilot and #100 main. Running rich out of the box is further proof that all one needs to make the Tazland BBK run correctly, is the STOCK Spree carb which runs a #34 Pilot, and the supplied #90 main jet from Taz in the BBK kit. Your intake manifold is really gonna be the key to unlocking the potential of the BBK, NOT the carb or airbox/pod filter.

Running the BBK with the stock carb, should not be an issue at all for those wanting to try it, provided you use a better intake then the stock Spree intake.

Port out the stock intake, use an SB50 intake, or better yet, use the Kitaco intake.

The stock intake is SHlT, you WILL need something better, but you DO NOT have to spend alot of money to make it work right. Research a bit, and the BBK will be one god d*** great upgrade for your Spree.
User avatar
eclark5483
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:15 am
Location: Spencer Iowa
Contact:

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by eclark5483 »

So, update on the Spree. I switched to the 17mm Polini per 1man8scoots advice. It is well broken in with a few hundred miles on it. I am consistently able to run it wide open throttle, bury the needle and ride it with a full tank of gas WOT till it runs out of gas. The 17mm Polini with a #34 Pilot has fixed my rich condition issues at idle. No top speed run videos on the open road yet because I want to get the issue I am having with the carb coupler boot being loose taken care of first. Waiting on the shock riser from SSS to get here to fashion a brace to it. After that, I'll have a friend of mine ride it with camera and GPS to show what the top speed is.

Later this year, I will be installing a ported Tazland BBK via 1man8scoots, as well as having him port the Kitaco intake (just got some new gaskets from noiseguy today, thanks). Not doing it right now because I want to let my son get all the riding practice he can on it before the fall/end of riding season.

Once that work is done, and any jet changes needed have been tweaked, I'll post a final dyno run video as well as a road test top speed video. Will officially call it the "WORLD'S FASTEST AF05 SPREE NQ50".

So stay on the look out for that post/video later on in the year. :thumbwink:
Last edited by eclark5483 on Sat May 27, 2017 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: Getting the Tazland BBK, GEARS, + MLM ran on a dyno

Post by Meatball »

:2thumbs:
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
Post Reply