Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Oh just so everyone knows. Told Shawn my "ABORT" temp for the Dyno run will be 280 degrees. jakubman1, I feel bad for you and REALLY REALLY crossing my fingers that if we don't at least learn something about getting it to run right, we at least learn how it performs.. YOU GUYS are the ones who put in the effort to tweak them. Maybe for some people they are bad. 2 stroke science on a Honda is just a tad more complex then what it seems. They built them stock, to run WOT. Who in their right mind runs WOT these days? Installing the BBK, is asking the engine to meet different conditions. If you can make the dice roll a little less aggravating for someone by posting verified results with what YOU are trying, then by all means, do it. I'm with ya their buddy!! I TOTALLY expect mine to bite the farm!!

jakubman1 wrote:Something is fishy with those kits.
IMO they are JUNK.

Not true. Ive been turning wrenches for close to 25yrs and know that if anything was wrong with these kits then they would be immediately exploding on the initial crank or flat out wouldn't run at all. You just cant run "JUNK" at 5000rpms without a big ka-boom. I bought 2 kits and both of them ran very well at idle to 3/4 throttle. They ran smooth, quiet and with more torque than my Spree had ever seen. The problems I experienced at WOT is entirely in tuning. I attribute my BBK failed attempts at my own personal inexperience in tuning 2-stroke motors and an extreme lack of patience. The kits are solid.....IMO

Cant WAIT to see these Dyno results!

I wish I had more free time, I would put my bbk back together and experiment with carbs. Taz had an adapter plate with the ct intake to bolt it to the spree. Then there was a kit with the intake/adapter and 21mm carb. It was wicked I have one. The trick is to have an affordable carb and intake setup. My BBK ran wot all day long after I broke it in. It was inhaling a reed stopper spring at 11k rpm or more that did it in.

I think I'm gonna do some testing and post a video. I just got a stock carb and intake for my spree because the one on my bike was the 21mm carb but I sold it. Funny how I have the original 48mm BBK still on my testing spree from six years ago. Me and my sons beat the crap out it and it still starts up with 1 kick. Well it did before I removed the carb. I test everything before I sell it. I tested the spree BBK very well before it was sold.

Listen Jaku I warned you. If you look at the first piston you fried it was dark and looked like it just overheated. The first piston looked well lubricated. If you look at the second piston it looked like it was super lean. The piston was white and the spark plug was white. I tried to guide you through the trouble shooting via text and e-mail but you didn't listen and had no patience. You kept running the kit super lean and you ran into problems.

As far as the kits are junk and you hear people BBK this and BBK that. Where are these posts you are talking about? I have sold over 800 of these kit and I used to put a link to hondaspree.net on every set of directions. I did that for years until I ran out of room on my directions. If the kits where junk the forums would have been loaded down with seizing issues but thats just not the case. Many veteran and new members on these forums had great results with these these kits.

I have noticed that a lot of people start off with modding the spree. Then after that they want more. The spree is not a very fast engine and has limits. I love my modded spree and used to ride it a lot but its not a elite. When people ask me to get there spree to 45-50 I tell them swap in a dio. The spree has its limits and modding one is not for everyone. Most people just get the BBK for a little extra pep in the step. Thats why I own 11 scooters so I can ride the one that fits my mood of the day. I just woke up so this post is a little scrambled. lol

Taz

Taz, what jet size are you using on your stock carb Spree that you and your boy are able to rip around on?

Edit: And I agree, modding isn't for every one. After I got my BBK, my first thought was... OK, NO PROB, I CAN INSTALL THIS...EASY.. 4 stroke BBK's are harder and you have to mess with valve adjustments, but still no biggy. It's after I started researching the dynamics of it all a bit more that I realized it was a bit over my head and that's why I brought it to the motorcycle pros to figure out. Shawn is more well versed in 4 stroke then 2 stroke, but he and his crew are talented people who keep it real, and I'm confident he'll be able to figure it out for at least me anyway.

So here's my math calculations on the fuel. Pump produces 70:1 (allegedly). If I run 70:1 in the tank (70:2 total), I get 35:1 lubrication. The tiny carb and it's jet, now no longer has to try pushing out the heavier oil in addition to fuel it was meant to deliver. I think that is a happier place for the carb to be in. I'm happier with that equation because it still puts more lube on the bigger piston, and will allow the jet to do a better job feeding fuel.

EDIT: More fuel also allows it to use the cooling properties of the gas more efficiently.

OK, since my fuel ratio for the Dyno run has been figured out. I'll throw in this other stat. I just ordered 4 quarts of Pro Honda GN2 Injector Oil. Can't remember what was in there, I think it was the cheap stuff from Walmart I tossed in back when I first got the Spree and was trying to get it to run. Going to make sure the oil being used in Genuine Honda for the pump, will probably use the GN2 in the tank as well.

we used a 90 main jet in the stock carb

I ran the heck out of the taz kit on my spree and it was extremely reliable. I seized it several times because I was an idiot while tuning, and this was my 1st 2-stroke experience (unless you count high school encounters). The quality of his product was great, I also bought the larger carb and intake he sold with taller gears.

I rode it hard for a year, sold it to a dude who is still ripping around on it. I can hear from a half-mile away since I retrofit a polini tuned pipe from a dirt bike (Polini X1 50cc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLk9Y76ZNIU

deuce217 wrote:I ran the heck out of the taz kit on my spree and it was extremely reliable. I seized it several times because I was an idiot while tuning, and this was my 1st 2-stroke experience (unless you count high school encounters). The quality of his product was great, I also bought the larger carb and intake he sold with taller gears.

I rode it hard for a year, sold it to a dude who is still ripping around on it. I can hear from a half-mile away since I retrofit a polini tuned pipe from a dirt bike (Polini X1 50cc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLk9Y76ZNIU

I watched a few of your vids a while back. Looked like a nice little scoot. Do you remember what configuration you used? Like, jet size, fuel/oil ratio, carb type, air intake, etc??

I'm at least attempting a configuration that anybody with a spree can do without buying the carb, the intake, the porting, the etc, etc.. Gears and MLM pipe aside. The important part is helping others NOT seize.

Maybe talk your buddy into a top speed vid, or even a dyno pull vid?

All I know though, is if my theory of 70:1 pump + 70:1 in tank plays out well, I will attempt to scale back the tank ratio even more after break in and see how it handles. Like maybe take it to 80:1 for a tank, then 100:1, etc. I think there is more potential in that stock carb letting it do what it was meant to do, deliver fuel, not deliver fuel and oil. Although a hint of 2 stroke oil in the tank won't hurt too much, might even help a bit.

When is the Dyno run, clark? Edge of my seat over here!

Dont expect much power if you're shutting it down at 280. 370 on the dyno is where we do if we cared about the engine.
I'd guess you'll make around 4-5hp out of the spree.

Meatball wrote:When is the Dyno run, clark? Edge of my seat over here!

Hoping for Friday or Saturday. The GN2 oil just made it in yesterday. I'm on 12 hour shifts at Polaris, but Friday we start later so I'll have a bit of time, and Saturday I have off, so hopefully I can get er done then. Friday for sure, all drop off at least the gas and oil. Sorry for delay.. duty calls.

Im hoping to see fuel curves and air intake measurements at different rpms. Just doing a dyno run for horsepower and temp is kinda pointless.