Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

ME TOO !!

Gettin a few of the graphics ready....

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33932

Link to the finished scoot in the scooter showcase forum.

Lookin Good. Nice paint job. Just so happens I was born in Pitt, PA and its got the colors of the Steelers. * yah

Soooo... just when ya thought the saga of the dyno testing was over... IT'S NOT !!!

After having it out from the shop and doing some heat cycles and an early morning ride to Casey's for some donuts then an after noon ride to my mom's to show her the bike. I discovered the clutch is slipping !!

Looking back at the data. The dyno shows this too. Also explains the crappy take offs on the dyno even though the revving was up there.



Run 16 was done just after the Spree was started up and was still cold. In run 17 (the one in the video), we see a loss of power and a drop in torque. Compare to the video where the Spree hit 40, and horsepower was over 3...Typical glazing symptoms. I suppose I could just tear it open, try the sandpaper trick, but why bother? I'm just gonna take it out and have it re-lined.

Figures the only thing I never replaced would end up being a problem.. Ah well, that's the way it goes. Might as well put new springs in it too.

I should have been thinking to check that. When I had it running with the old piston, I had suspected it at the time as well, but wrote it off as just a wimpy motor. After driving around on my other Spree, which does have a good clutch, I can see the difference. I suppose I could just swap out clutches from the other Spree, but I'll probably end up having to replace that one as well anyway.

Won't be letting my son drive it any more until then. Don't wanna be revving that engine any higher then need be till the issue is resolved.

After that... YET ANOTHER reading on the dyno!!

Next run will only be taken up to maybe 7500-8000 RPM. Taking G9's advice about not stressing it past it's power band. Make's me wonder if his 4.5-5.5 range guess of HP is gonna be right on the money. Plus, It's had 5 heat cycles and about 10 miles of riding on it, so the engine is in a little better shape then it would be fresh off a new piston.

New (used) clutch should be here tomorrow, then I'll send it off to jwpartsplus.com for new kevlar padding and will replace springs with 1000rpm Yamaha Jog springs. The Spree is now winterized so the fuel that is in it consists of 1/2 VP110 racing fuel and 1/2 91 octane premium with 32:1 Pro Honda GN2 Injector oil. According to the following Excel chart, it should be at 100.5 octane..

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octaneblend.xls

So next dyno run will be high octane, new clutch pads, new springs. Engine has had about 7 or 8 heat cycles, and has been ran with 1 full tank of gas till it was about empty. So it should be just about broken in by now.

As a side note, went searching for a new shock for it. Noticed when driving over some tracks that it slams pretty rough. Decided to go with this one from SSS.

http://scooterswapshop.com/products/mot ... 6381761609

I wasn't sure on proper shock size, but when I measured from center of bolt hole to center of bolt hole I got the following:



Looking at the motoforce shock, it seems like it should fit just perfect. The bottom bolt end looks to have one side that is threaded just like the Spree's shock. Will report back if it works well or not.

OK just wanna give a run down of what is coming up and where you can find all the parts I have installled. But first, I wanna say the Motoforce 245mm shock is a PERFECT fit for the Spree for anybody intested in replacing the stock shock for something better. You can find it here:

http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... 45mm-shock

But anyway, this next dyno run will be

Tazland 48mm BBK

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371762036531

Tazland gears

http://www.ebay.com/itm/222160633401

MLM People's pipe

http://www.treatland.tv/MLM-honda-spree ... pe-381.htm

Kitaco Intake

http://japan.webike.net/products/373376.html

Polini CP Carb (21mm)
**NOTE** Polini carb's come stock with a #38 Pilot and #80 main, this is too rich on the pilot, #32 or #34 would be more ideal, also a more ideal carb would be the 17mm Polini CP.
LARGEST SUGGESTED CARB SIZE FOR A SPREE BLOCK IS 17.5mm

http://scooterswapshop.com/collections/ ... k-manifold

2000 RPM (RED) Leo Vince clutch springs
**NOTE** When using higher gears like the aftermarket 15:81 gears, use the stiffer YELLOW Leo Vince Springs so that you launch higher in the power band.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331475908975

Repadded clutch with bead blasted bell from:

http://www.jwpartsplus.com/jw-clutch-worx.html

Ported SB50 reeds from 1man8scoots

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=32560

Fuel mix will be 1/2 91 Premium 1/2 VP110 for a mix of 100.5 Octane.

The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.

As a cheaper alternative to a better shock I just installed this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/WARNING-No-Fat- ... rkt%3D1%26

MrJumps wrote:The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.

Duly noted. Will keep standard plug.

eclark5483 wrote:

MrJumps wrote:The iridium spark plug wont have any change on a 2 stroke only for our valved friends. Due to the way the mix is compressed in a 2t it wont need the extra spark. If anything you may end up fouling plugs out faster.

Duly noted. Will keep standard plug.

Also, some of the Denso spark plugs (not all of them), are wider at the base and do not allow for the use of a temperature sensor ring for cht reading.

Well I think i'm finally gonna have to take the same road as yourself Mr eclarke with the aftermarket carb... Pretty sure Nifty 68 breathed it's last tonight. One epic seize that was very much unexpected

My advice: http://japan.webike.net/products/375578.html

If you're gonna change the carb, do yourself a very huge favor, and take care of the REAL problem and cause of restricted flow... the intake.

Changing out to the SB50/Tact reeds is beneficial as well. That Kitaco on mine has made a HUGE difference. Hoping to get some dyno time in soon to see what's going on with the A/F mix, and HP/Torque readings. It isn't getting restricted by the Polini CP adapter anymore with that Kitaco. It really opened it up alot!! All I had to do was take the adapter off the coupler and just use the coupler between the Polini and Kitaco for an almost perfect port match. Ain't nothing holding it back now. My only regret is I didn't send the Kitaco to 1man8scoots for porting, but that shouldn't affect anything too much. Still an awesome intake.

Does the throttle cable in the Kitaco work with stock spree throttle tube or do you have to purchase another?

It's a Mikuni carb, so I see no reason it wouldn't. The kit is actually for a Honda Tact, which in America, would be a Honda Aero (SB50). You would be using a performance intake/carb kit for an Aero on a Spree, which should have the same threads and cables. I personally use a Polini so I can not give a 100% on the Mikuni, but there is no evidence that it wouldn't work.

Otherwise, Treatland also carries carbs and cables if you buy the intake and coupler separate.

Sorry for the long delay guys. The boys at the shop have been fairly busy and I've been on overtime. But I finally got around to getting some dyno results for everybody to check out.

So first off, the new clutch made a huge difference. I was hoping for 4hp or better. Didn't quite get there, but I did end up with a very impressive 3.85HP, 3.06 Torque.

Only took it up to 8 grand (and it was doing 40 by then). Didn't want to stress the engine out to much or exceed the power band too far. Air/Fuel was a bit higher, but at a guess, that is the result of the VP110 fuel mixed in. VP110 has a higher stoich value then regular gas. Something like 15.x or so.. Wasn't particularly concerned about A/F this run though, as I was expecting that higher number. Also, consider when you DO run racing fuel, you can actually lose a bit of horse, and you do lose some horse as well when you run higher gears like I am. So I'd say it is very probable the BBK can easily do better then 4HP. So get out those wrenches and get to tuning!! About the only way I'd improve the numbers I post, is maybe have that Kitaco intake ported out, have the cylinder ported, maybe some jetting tweaks. I won't be doing that, I'm pretty happy with the results I get AS IS. What's interesting, is that it will do 40 at 8 grand, make me wonder what it will peak at in terms of speed, if I brought it up to 10 or 11 grand. Maybe later this year I'll have that dyno run done and we will see. But for now..

Video can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1MUmUUJbbs

And here is a graph of the dyno results, looks like it peaks around 6500 rpm



And for the interested, here is Kitaco intake with coupler and Polini carb.