SPREE WON"T IDLE

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porter92
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SPREE WON"T IDLE

Post by porter92 »

Noiseguy,

This is pretty cool.

Since this is a brand new board, I'd like to take opportunity to bring up the ongoing problem with my 86 Spree. First of all, the problem:

IT WILL NOT IDLE.

It will start up fine and will run as long as throttle is being applied. I have driven it about 30 miles, up and down hills, have had no problems running it as long as I am applying throttle. However, if you let off the throttle it will die out. The following work has been done:

Carb cleaned (twice) per Jerry instructions
Gaskets and O-rings replaced on carb
Reed valve gaskets replaced (reed valves seem ok on inspection
Spark plug replaced (the plug is for an elite 80, however it looks identical the original)
Gas tank cleaned
Exhaust removed, inspected for blockage (looked ok)
Air filter cleaned and re-oiled, (it was in pretty good shape)
Airbox lid tightened down throughly also
All bolts on intake manifold are tightend down

It has been indicated that this is the fault of dirty carb or idle circuit, but I don't believe that is the case after cleaning carb and all parts twice throughly with the carb cleaner, using compressed air to blow out passages, etc. I have set the air screw to recommended spec of 1 7/8 turns and played with idle screw and air screw settings as well, but this thing won't idle and dies out still. Anyone have an idea before I finally give up?

One thing to add, when I start it up the engine seems to run up fast for a moment, rear wheel will be spinning, than it slows down and dies out. :!:
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Post by noiseguy »

Sounds like your choke plunger isn't opening. If so, you're running rich.

Go to the technical forum, there's a blurb there on checking choke operation. You can "lock out" the choke by partially withdrawing it in the hole.

Let us know what you find out.
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Post by porter92 »

Thanks. I will try. One other question, do you think compression could have anything to do with my problem? I haven't tested because I don't have a compression gauge.

Sorry for post in general forum, meant to post in the tech forum.
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Post by porter92 »

Noiseguy,

You were correct. I pulled screws and the retaining ring for the choke and it is idling. My next question is, can the choke be cleaned or does it have to be replaced? If its replacing, do you know where I could buy a new one? (besides Honda)
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Post by noiseguy »

Email drichardson@core.com or check ebay. There might be a way to lock it out, but I doubt it would be worth the hassle.
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Post by porter92 »

Ok, I think I will email. I take it you cannot disassemle it and clean it? I found this link http://www.scootertherapy.com/nqchokepage.html showing a pic with the choke disassembled. I afraid if I try I'll distroy the plastic housing. Too bad, I'd like to go riding today.
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Bike won't idle

Post by Jerry »

Think about what you are saying here. The bike runs great as long as you are opening the throttle.
Doesn't matter if you cleaned the carb seventeen times per my instructions. Your idle circuit is clogged. Your choke is NOT the fault here.
The idle circuit is directly after (towards engine) the main jet. There is a small tube going from the bowl at about the same depth as the main jet. This tube directs fuel to the intake no matter what position the throttle barrel is in (up or down). The idle circuit is ALWAYS in operation. By adjusting the air screw on the side, you are allowing more or less air through the port and that action is what siphons fuel up the idle circuit and into the engine. When you open the throttle the main jet takes over this job and that's why it runs at higher RPM.

Pull the carb and drop the bowl. Put the bottom of the carb over a bright light. There should be light coming through the main jet. There should also be light coming through about an eighth of an inch towards the engine from the main jet. Believe me, it's only a pinhole but you should see it. Can nearly guarantee that you won't see light through the idle circuit.

If you do, then the air adjustment screw is clogged or blocked in some way. Your problem lies in the idle circuit, nowhere else.
Scoot safely
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Post by porter92 »

Jerry,

I agree with what you say. However, after pulling out the choke today per the tip from noiseguy, the bike was starting up and idling fine. This is the first time since I got the bike that I was able to get it to do this. Perhaps my problem is a combo of a malfunctioning choke and dirty idle circuit, don't know. Obviously, I'm not a mechanic. At this point I'd be willing to buy a cleaned/rebuilt carb and verfied working choke from someone and just put them in so I could start riding the thing.
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Post by noiseguy »

I'd still verify that your idle circuit is open per Jerry's suggestion. I think (based on what Jerry wrote in the Tech Discussion) that your carb is using the choke circuit as an idle circuit.

Go reread the section on choke operation; Jerry added a bit on checking the choke operation.
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Post by porter92 »

Jerry,

First of all, thanks for your advice here.

I removed the carb (third time now, getting tired of doing this, allthough I'm learning a lot here), removed the bowl and placed a light underneath the carb as you said. Light was coming throught the main jet and choke valve. I noticed the pinhole you mentioned next to the main jet. No light shines through it. So I would have to take it that it is clogged. What would be causing it to be clogged up (carbon maybe?) I've tried shooting carb cleaner, compressed from the tube below and it doesn't seem to be working as I see no light shining through the pin hole (I'm just getting carb cleaner all over me when I'm spraying at it). I read the carb cleaning instructions and you don't recommened using any kind of object to push through the tube to clean it out. Any suggestions on how to clean it would be helpful as I want to get this thing running right before the end of the warm weather here.
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Post by noiseguy »

On DOHC CB750/900/1100, the only way to clean a blocked idle jet is with a #80 drill bit, which is close to the right size. The jet is not replacable.

If the idle jet's replaceable, get a new one. You could try soaking the whole carb in carb cleaner, but if you do you need to remove everything that's rubber on the carb. Carb cleaner buckets are sold at most car service stores for around $15; comes in a gallon pail. You immerse the carb for a bit and then wash it in water.
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Post by porter92 »

I don't think it replaceable as the idle circuit/tube appears to be part of the main carb body. I might try soaking it as you suggested. Thanks for the info.
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Won't idle

Post by Jerry »

Try blowing down the idle circuit from the top. You must have foreign material in there that was drawn up the tube and is too big to be blown out the top.
I know this will go against what I said about putting a pin or other tool into the opening, but you could safely try a round toothpick from the top. The wood is soft and therefore will probably not enlarge the hole like a steel wire or pin would. The problem you have is definitely in the idle circuit because you should see light through the opening when placed over a bright light source.
Scoot safely
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Post by porter92 »

Thanks, Jerry. I will try that.
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Post by porter92 »

Ok Jerry, one last question. I'm finally begining to see some light through that pinhole. Its very faint though and have to kind of tilt the carb while shinning a flashlight from bottom until I can see some light. Question is, is it still clogged slightly or is this normal? In other words should I automatically see some light through the pinhole when I look or is it normal to tilt the carb around a little until you can see some light through it. I'm only asking because I want to make sure its clean before putting it back together again since this is the third time doing this.
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