The Fleet

This is the place to post your scooter builds; everything from stock Spree restoration to water-cooled drag bikes.

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vintagegarage
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The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

Rather than add an update with more photos to the end of this thread, I decided to just edit the original post. I hope that that is ok. Some posts in this thread were lost when the forum was reverted back a few days in September. The missing posts from others pretty much said I should add an Elite to the fleet, so I added two of them.. an Elite S and an Elite ES. I replaced the old photos in this post with new ones taken today.

The 1984 Gyro was the first project. When I got it, the starter didn't work, and the P.O. guessed that it needed a new bendix drive. When I took off the right clutch cover, I found that the special left hand nut on the end of the crankshaft had come loose, allowing the drive plate to come off the end of the crankshaft. The bendix was perfect, it just couldn't engage the gear on the drive plate as the plate wasn't in the right place. Also, the tiny spring plate that locates the oil pump gear was missing, and the bolt that is supposed to hold it in place to locate the oil pump gear was nowhere to be found. The cover gasket was homemade, so it was obvious that some rube had been in there, probably to change or inspect one of the clutches. He probably didn't own a torque wrench and never tightened the crankshaft nut properly. I cleaned out all the gunk and old oil from the bottom of the clutch housing, and found the plate for the oil pump driveshaft down in the gunk. I installed the spring plate holding the oil pump gear, put the drive plate back on the crankshaft, properly torqued the crankshaft nut, re-installed the side cover with a OEM Honda gasket, filled the clutch housing with oil, and found that the starter and bendix now worked perfectly. The engine started and ran great, but only if I first primed the cylinder with raw gas. I stripped and painted the front basket with white single stage automotive urethane. I also stripped and painted the wheels with silver single stage urethane. I also straightened/replaced the broken turn signals. I installed new Bridgestone Hoop tires, and then went to work on the body. The louvers in engine cover were badly melted because a previous owner had thrown away the muffler protector, and while he was at it, all of the fan shrouding and much of the air cleaner box. I was able to get most of the missing parts sourced from this board, and a new 2 inch too long, but fits and works perfectly, front brake cable off eBay. I also had to rebuild all of the mounting tabs for the plastic engine cover using PVC plumbing pipe cement, and cutting up a piece of a white plastic tray I got at Walmart. Unlike as I found later when I worked on the Spree, most or all of the Gyro plastic is molded in an off-white plastic, and painted with paint that is not even slightly resistant to lacquer thinner. I painted the repaired engine cover with Fusion for Plastic Pepper Red, and found it to be a very close or perfect match to the factory color. I also repaired the seat lock area, as the seat lock had been punched out and thrown away. I spotted in that repair with Pepper Red, and you can't tell. I got a new seat lock from Honda, and they are still available. I also cleaned the carb and fuel delivery system, and cherried up the fan shrouding, and air cleaner box and air cleaner. Then I went to work on why the engine needed to be primed to start, and found that the air bleed idle circuit was completely blocked. I cleared the blockage with compressed air, took it for a long test drive to get good and warm, and then set the idle speed and idle mixture. The Gyro is a pretty high mileage unit, with the odometer showing 5091 miles, but now it starts and runs perfectly well, cold start and warm start both seem correct. Top speed on the level is 34 mph indicated. In an odd twist of whimsy, I had to buy a box of engine shroud pieces in order to get the rear bumper that was part of the lot. Included in the lot were all of the muffler shroud, airbox and fan box parts that I had previously bought.. hahahaha.. now I have a bunch of spares I may never need.

The 1984 Aero 50 was a much simpler project. I replaced both brake cables, stripped and painted the wheels and put on Bridgestone Hoop tires. I also stripped and painted the front basket. I also straightened/replaced the broken turn signals. Surprisingly, the toughest job was replacing the horn button switch. I also replaced the plastic speedometer gear in the front wheel. The gear is still available OEM at Honda. I cleaned out the fuel system, set the idle mixture and idle speed, and now it runs and starts perfectly. It has 2937 miles showing on the odometer, but I don't know how long the odometer was not operating. Top speed is 35 mph on the level.

The 1986 Spree was a great find.. 807 miles showing on the odometer, and everything in reasonably good shape, except that the engine wouldn't start or run. It took me almost three weeks to solve the engine problem, and I described it in a separate post previously. Bottom line was that the left crankshaft seal had blown out of the engine block. I installed a new OEM crankshaft seal, and new OEM piston rings even though the motor didn't need rings. I fixed the broken or bent turn signals, painted the wheels silver, installed new OEM tires from Honda, found a fuel valve cover and painted it black, and cleaned the fuel system, adjusted the carb, and so on, by now the usual stuff. I found that unlike the Gyro, most or all of the plastic body parts on the Spree are molded in color instead of painted, but Fusion for Plastic Gloss Black is a good match for the black and I used it to paint the fuel valve cover I sourced that was cast in the wrong color. The Spree starts instantly, and runs great, and top speed on the level is 31 mph. It is actually pretty quick off the line, so if your Spree seems to bog off the line, maybe the clutch is slipping. Mine was, but now is fixed. The key for me was that the bogging got worse as the clutch got hot. I've now put over 100 miles on the Spree, so I think the crankshaft seal is going to stay in place. My only guess is that perhaps a previous owner might have used starter fluid in the carb, and it seems like a bit of a stretch, but maybe there was a bottom end explosion that blew the seal out. Seems impossible, so it might have been something else. I do know that the engine had never been apart since it left Honda, and the same for both side covers. I couldn't find any other damage other that the seal was blown completely out of the seat in the block. I really don't know what caused it.

The 2000 Elite S was the fourth project. The last man to work on it said he put on a new top end kit and that it runs, but it sounded like it had bad main bearings. Before tearing into it, I decided to start it and see if that made any sense. When I first turned it over, it wouldn't fire, so I pulled out the carb slide, and then squirted a couple of pumps of fuel/oil mix into the carb and put the slide back in. When I hit the starter, the engine started right up and ran for a couple of seconds until the prime was used up, and it did sound like bad crankshaft bearings. I primed it again and ran it a couple of more times, and the last time it ran long enough to see if the variator and clutch were working, and they were. So I decided to tear into the engine and see what was going on. I removed the engine and put it up on the bench. I found that a P.O. had done a very nice job grinding out the restrictor washer in the muffler, as good as I could have done, so no further work was needed there. The airbox had been modified a bit. Instead of punching out the blocking restricting square, he had drilled it out with a big drill bit, so I cleaned up and squared the hole with an exacto knife. The variator restrictor plate had not been removed, and I couldn't find any modifications to the variator and everything looked ok there. I removed the restrictor plate and re-installed the variator. The main jet in the carb was a 75, so I assume that the P.O. had upjetted a bit and the motor probably ran well for a while until it blew up. I replaced the main jet with a 78 as used on the Elite SR. The oil pump was unchanged, and not wired in the WOT position. I assumed that lack of oil in the gasoline is what blew the motor up. The left crankshaft main bearing was bad. The right crankshaft main bearing was ok. The connecting rod bearings seemed ok. Since I didn't get to see the original piston and cylinder, I am not sure what condition they were in, but I assume they suffered from running with lack of oil. I replaced both main bearings and crankshaft seals, and installed an SR oil pump and double throttle cable. I also noticed that the SR came with a different carb needle set than the S, so I installed an SR needle set. As it turns out, the SR needle is very noticeably thinner than the S needle. I also installed the emulsion tube that came with the SR needle set. The Elite runs great now, and top speed on level ground is an indicated 34 mph. It is perhaps the fastest of the fleet off the line, but then feels heavy and is slow to go from 28 to 34.

The 1988 Elite ES was the most recent project. Very little was wrong with it. A good carb cleaning got it running right. While replacing the fuel line from the fuel valve to the carb, I found that the fuel valve was stuck in the "on" position. Using the procedure described in the workshop manual, I got the fuel valve working right. I'll replace the fuel valve when the part comes in. I straightened the kickstart lever as it had been bent inward, and touched up the black paint in places to remove layover scratches. I also installed a new helmet hook. The original one was missing and a new one was still available from Honda. If the speedometer is to be believed, this Elite ES goes 40+ on level ground. It is as slow as the Spree off the line, but seems to rev up higher than the rest of the fleet, and it does feel like it has the highest top speed of the fleet. I plan to build a front basket for it similar to the one on the black Spree, as the under seat storage, while very useful, is pretty warm and no good for the transport of ice cream here in Florida.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=31785

Right now, I am driving each of them every fifth day to run errands around town.

Anyway, here are photos of the fleet I took today:

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Last edited by vintagegarage on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rip_City_Spree
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Re: The Fleet

Post by Rip_City_Spree »

Nice fleet! Need the elite to round it out.
01 Elite SR
polini corsa
Polini 26mm Carb
Naraku intake
Naraku sport variator
Currently 5g rollers
zx trans
Arrow
red contra with yellow clutch springs.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by Xxbeejay45xx »

Sweet OG scooters! 87 elite would be cherry too!
95 Elite SR af16e
72cc Polini Corsa
28 Oko Carb 58/144
Ported intake
ZX Trans
Polini vari, clutch, springs
5.5 rollers
Malossi crank , CDI
Genuine Arrow pipe
Front and Rear disc brakes
Dio Live headset
Stretch and fatty rear wheel
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Re: The Fleet

Post by johnny248 »

I really like the "old futuristic" 80's hardlinded and angled look of they Aero 50. I'm kinda of '80s nostalgic though. Favorite car I've ever owned was an '89 Chrysler Conquest TSi. I had those great hard lines and angles. The widebodyook is still one of my favs. Memories.... I had soo much time and money I to that car between engine,turbo, suspension, etc. It pretty much was the cause of my divorce lol. Sorry to get off subject, but I really dig your Aero.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

This post was obsolete, so I added the info to the original post in this topic.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

There was a nice Tact 50 for sale near me last month, but unfortunately, it didn't have a title.. That is a big deal here in Florida.. many ads say a bill of sale is good enough, but it doesn't seem to be true here.. Other than a Tact 50, I'm not sure what I should add to the fleet. I'd love to get the Gyro X in Key West, but it doesn't have a title either. I think I also need a Gyro S. Any other suggestions?
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Re: The Fleet

Post by motormike »

vintagegarage wrote: I think I also need a Gyro S. Any other suggestions?

you absolutely must get, and ride the TG50M Gyro S to know why I say...
"they are far superior to the NN50M in handling characteristics"... :imo:
There are a great number of suggestions to add to your collection...could get extensive.
The real question is how many do you want to house, pay taxes, keep batteries charged, keep fluids maintained...blah, blah... :(
Kudos on the fine little herd of ponies... :urban:
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

I guess a good number would be 10, definitely at least 7 so I could drive a different one each day of the week.. seems like the batteries stay charged on their own if driven once a week.. all have kick starters just in case, except the Gyro. The cold start is not yet perfect on the Gyro either. If it won't fire within 5 seconds, I put the tilt lock on, and then lay the Gyro over to the left until the edge of the floor is about a half inch from the ground. Then I put it upright and it always starts right up. My theory is that tilting the carb way over causes raw gasoline to flow into the intake.. not sure about it, but the method always works. The Amal carb on my Triumph has a button you push down that pushes the carb float down, causing the bowl to overflow into the carb and intake manifold. That crude method of priming also works every time, and that gave me the idea of laying over the Gyro to prime it.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

I brought home this Express SR today.. fast approaching double digits.. this is a terrible disease. All I wanted was a pair of Gyros, and somehow I am ending up with one of everything Honda 50.

It is a cute little bugger, but it is missing a lot of parts that a previous owner decided weren't necessary.. I'll post a wanted ad in a separate post.. haven't tried to start it yet..

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Re: The Fleet

Post by motormike »

vintagegarage wrote:somehow I am ending up with one of everything Honda 50.
You've still got a long way to go... :wink:
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

I know! LOL.. Pretty soon I'll catch up to 1man8scoots..
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Re: The Fleet

Post by motormike »

vintagegarage wrote: The cold start is not yet perfect on the Gyro either.
If it won't fire within 5 seconds, I put the tilt lock on, and then lay the Gyro over to the left until the edge of the floor is about a half inch from the ground.
Then I put it upright and it always starts right up.
My theory is that tilting the carb way over causes raw gasoline to flow into the intake.. not sure about it,
Your theory is flawed in the case of the 1984 NN50M Gyro.
The carburetor is located on the two-wheeled unit that DOES NOT TILT.
No way that tilting the front half of a Gyro has any affect on fuel flowing into the intake manifold.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by vintagegarage »

I tilt it with the tilt lock on and lift the outside wheel.. and it really does seem to work. I can run the battery down trying or tilt it over and back, and it starts on the first revolution..
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Re: The Fleet

Post by motormike »

OH, yeah,...locked...right....you're right, I get it.
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Re: The Fleet

Post by johnny248 »

Jealous.... Id really like to pick up a couple more machines.
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