Sb50p sticker bomb build

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Chubbyfunkmonkey
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

It's an sb50p, no variator and meant to go 30 max for licensing. the "sb50" is a faster version but i don't think they were ever sold in the U.S. and if they were i didn't get one
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

I should also add that I'm 6'5" and weigh 180, I don't fit great.
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by eclark5483 »

I'm 5,11, 300+, my Stock Spree with stock Spree pipe will do 35. If you think your better performing engine is limited to 30, you really don't know much about it at all. And don't think I'm talking about my Sprees which have BBKs and Polini carbs. I'm speaking of the all stock one in my garage. All I did to it was bring it up to SB50 intake levels and it will hit 35. This is no secret technique.I'll explain more when I get home.
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

Don't know what to tell you everything I've found online says that my 1989 sb50p Elite E is intentionally limited to 30 mph so that it didn't require additional licensing. As it stands I hit 30 mph on flats which seems to be par for this scooter. All I've done so far is use a uni foam filter. The exhaust is already cut and tacked and it's going on. Don't worry I checked the prices on stock exhausts before I started cutting. Any info on opening up the intake would be great. I'm not trying to make the fastest scooter in the world just want it to merge and go up hills. It feels like it's choked up, I just want to let it breath a little.
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2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by eclark5483 »

OK, I'm home now. So lets get into this..

First of all, you are running lean. I don't care if you tell me you re-jetted the carb and it improved things, you are running lean.

How do I know this? That pod filter tells me so.

Explanation: Any time you use a free air filter, what you are doing is not only forcing more air in, you are decreasing the amount of vacuum in the venturi. Think of a vacuum cleaner. When you vacuum the floor and have the regular attachment on it, it hums along and sucks everything that it can in. Now what happens when you take the hose attachment off and put on that slim corner attachment? The suction being created is stronger. When you pull back the throttle on your carb, you are not letting in more gas, you are in fact, letting in more air. The more you pull back, the more air comes in to mix with fuel in the venturi. That fuel will get somewhat trapped in that vortex if it doesn't have enough suction to travel into the intake and into the cylinder. That free air filter is reducing that vacuum, thus, more fuel can not get into the cylinder like it should, thus, you lose horsepower and speed/rpm's. But this isn't the only issue I suspect... more on that in a bit.

The pipe you propose to put on will do nothing for you. no you will NOT be letting more sound waves into the cylinder. If anything, you will be reducing the pulse and sending fuel out. In a 2 stroke engine, when it exhausts gas, it also takes some of the fresh new charged gas with it. The reason a 2 stroke pipe is tuned to the engine, is so that it pulls some of that wasted gas back into the cylinder to help create more horsepower. The theory of horsepower is quite simple... the more gas and air you can feed into a cylinder, the more horsepower you will create. In a 2 stroke this comes from not only the intake system, but the pipe as well. If you alter this on a whim or best guess, you can upset the balance being created, lose more of the charge, lose horsepower, and on an already lean bike, make it run more lean.

But then you try it out, and you see that you have picked up a mile an hour or 2, so you think "AH HA... TO HECK WITH THAT GUY ON HONDASPREE.NET, I SHOWED HIM". No, what you more then likely have done, is ran the bike so lean, it picks up some power. This is a mistake many people make, thinking the bike they just inadvertently made lean, is running much better.

Trust me, you can do more damage trying to modify your pipe in any way unless you know how the acoustics resonate specifically for that engine then just putting the old one back on. Run it if you must, but don't say nobody ever warned you. 2 stroke science is much different then 4 stroke. Just guessing could cost you a blown engine. 2 strokes are sensitive like that.

What I would do if I were you, is take off that pod filter and put the stock airbox on with a freshly oiled filter. If you don't have it available and are stuck with the UNI filter, then I would do this.. Take that red layer off the filter. Get yourself some duct or electrical tape, and wrap it around the filter starting from the front (side that attaches to carb) and wrap towards the back stopping at maybe 3/4ths the way and use this as your starting point, K?

What you are looking to do here, is CREATE A STRONGER SUCTION. This will help the gas get to the cylinder, thus give you more power and speed. You can, and should experiment with wrapping the filter at different levels till you find one that will work well for you. I can't give you an exact on this because of course all bikes are not the same, and you have whatever jetting in there you are using now.

Care to share that so we can advise you up down or stay the same?

Just this tweak by itself should net you a few miles per hour. Other things that might be holding you back that you need to look into.

Your clutch could be slipping. It might be glazed over, or the pads worn down too much. Yes, you can get your clutch repadded if need be, costs less then $50 and is better then new. You can lose ALOT of top speed because of worn pads. I suspect this might also be part of the problem. You're here telling us your struggling to get to 30? Guarentee the complaint that you will COMMONLY hear from the Elite E guys is "it will do 35-37, help me get to 40". This is why I suspect other issues. Your belt could be worn as well, have you checked it's thickness to spec? A thin belt that visually looks good, might actually be bad and you don't realize it. Check the tech manuals for what spec should be, if it's worn past, then it's time for a new one. You can get one from Honda, or most anywhere on the web, I suggest only using a Honda brand replacement.

I see where you are coming from and where you want to be, I understand wanting "cheap", and I'll try giving you, maybe not the cheapest, but most sensible advice.

You need to understand, the AF05 does have limitations, so your performance choices are limited as well. The way I see it, you can do 3 things. The most expensive thing, is follow my performance guide in my signature if you want it to do 45-50mph... yes SERIOUSLY, THAT FAST.

The second option is the most common option and is much cheaper... Swap the engine for an AF16 or AF05E Variated engine.

The 3rd option is the cheapest option, but might be a painful pill to swallow for those insisting on making the bike go faster then what it is designed to do.. You keep the bike as close to stock as original. The bike does not run fast, it runs well. Tune it right, and it will do close to 40 for you with regular gas in the tank and oil in the oil tank. Don't mind what you read all over the internet or claims people make about this law or that law. If I can make my 100% Iowa Edition... which was the slowest of all the Sprees, and would only do maybe 25, run 35mph just by tuning it right, there is no reason whatsoever that you shouldn't be able to make your bike do better.

Just don't be stubborn about it and follow the advice people have for it. You don't need to mind one word I say, there is almost a decade's worth of post from past members you should really try sorting through some day. Always here to help, so don't take anything I say as snide. Good luck and ask lots of questions if need be, that's why we are here.
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

According to Honda (the people who make this scooter) a 1989 sb50p shouldn't pass 30mph on flats. This is because it would violate motorcycle licensing laws in a number of states. I appreciate your concerns and to be honest would probably give the same advice to someone else. With that being said I'm not running lean because I know how to jet a carb. As far as the exhaust goes I have cut open and viewed the internals of the stock exhaust. It doesn't appear that it uses any kind of echo to keep pressure in the cylender rather it just chokes the exhaust to a point where it always has back pressure, not ideal. As for the filter its on, who ever owned the bike before me attempted to modify it themselves and ruined it. Running it lean is problem why it seized up and got left in a backyard for 7 years. So there is no going back. It's probably jetted to about 75 now (#65 stock) and it shows no signs of running lean. I'm assuming it will need to be opened even more with the new exhaust. You don't need to worry I have plenty of experience doing things the wrong way and have gotten pretty good at it. I don't expect this to be an easy build but I will get it to 35 on flats by the end of the week or I'll send it to you and let you have a shot at it
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

As far as the clutch and belt go I haven't opened the transition cover yet because I'm still waiting on some gasket material to come in but I'll check it when it does. Hopefully I have some stiffer springs that will fit the clutch to help off the line and I'm guessing I will most likely need a new belt. For now I'm just happy it's running, I'm pretty sure I'm the first person to ever open the carb, it was the the most corroded I'd ever seen. If you know anyone with a stock sb50p that really can do 35-40 no transmission mods please put me in touch. I've been reading up on your spree build (very cool) and I can certainly say we are going to be taking very different approaches to our builds. This is going to be a half assed budget build that hopefully gets rid of some of the leftovers I have hanging around the shop.
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

propane pipe welded and installed...

ImageIMG_1661 by chubbyfunkmonkey, on Flickr

looks good sounds good

ImageFullSizeRender(1) by chubbyfunkmonkey, on Flickr

it needs a re jetting but it runs. i know i should have bumped up the main jet first but i had to take advantage of the 10 minutes of sun so i took it it out. It bogged badly off the line, had to kind of run with it to get it going. it started picking up at about 10-15mph then at 25 it took off. At about 31 0r 32 it started coughing and cutting out, way too lean. so long as it doesn't rain ill be up jetting till i get a result.

not going to lie my heart sank when it bogged so bad, but once it got going it gave me hope. i'll be back in a few hours with some news
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

It's Alive!

Just ran 33-34mph on a flat piece of road both directions! The top speed isn't even the best part on the way home I was going up hills at 25mph that I could only do 15-20 up with the stock exhaust. I was giggling to myself the whole way home, I haven't been this excited by a scooter since I got my 04 ruckus to 50. I think I can do even better too because I went way conservative with the first porting on the propane tank. The diameter of the exhaust tip on the propane tank is just a little smaller than the stock muffler just to make sure I still have some back pressure, but at 30+ it still feels like it's being restricted. I'm going to hit it with some paint and take some pics.

I think I may know where the sb50p is restricted. If anyone has an sb50 stock muffler that they are willing to dissect and compare to the pic I put up I would love to see it.
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by bonesv »

That's Cool! :love: I love to see progress!

Reminds me of the first time I rode my scooter with a bbk on it!
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by eclark5483 »

No thanks, the images and location of restriction has been documented for almost a decade, but have fun rediscovering what is already known.
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

Will do. I like figuring stuff out for myself, other wise you miss out on a lot of possibilities because narrow minded people tell you it's not possible ;)
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by vintagegarage »

Chubbyfunkmonkey wrote: the "sb50" is a faster version but i don't think they were ever sold in the U.S. and if they were i didn't get one

The Elite E is the SB50P and the Elite ES is the SB50 and both were sold in the U.S. All of the Elite ES's I have run off the end of the speedometer on level ground and are slow as snails off the line. At any driver weight over about 160 pounds, you have to "Flintstone" them to get them to start moving from a stop up even the slightest hill.

Have a look at this article:

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Honda/ ... eSB50.html
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Chubbyfunkmonkey »

I noticed it was a pretty slow off the line when I first got it going. I wasn't sure if it was just because the air box had been messed with or if it was just made to be a little gutless off the line. Since I opened it up a little it seems to be a little faster from a stop than it was, which I find curious. I had kind of assumed that with a less restricted system the airflow from idle to to open throttle would be less consistent and bog out more. It's still pretty slow off the line though and starting on hills is terrifying

I think that was one of the articles I had read when I first got it, I was excited until I looked at the title and it had that "p"
Last edited by Chubbyfunkmonkey on Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1989 sb50p
2005 ruckus 50cc custom
2009 ruckus 125cc 4speed
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Re: Sb50p sticker bomb build

Post by Meatball »

Lipstick on a pig.. :imo:
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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