can't get the throttle cable/main needle re-installed proper

[Rowbear]

about two years ago I took the carb off to clean it because of some issues the spree was having. After putting it back together the only way I could get it to start was by pouring some fuel in the back of the air box, at which point it would start and run wide-open (sometimes until I shut it off).

I think the problem has to do with the fact that I can't get the main needle that is controlled by the throttle back into the proper position. I know that one slot lines up with the idle screw and the other with that little tit in the back of the carb (which I assume holds the throttle cable stop in place). I've tried many many times and have taken it to a motorcycle shop who spent an hour on it, charged me $65, didn't get it reinstalled properly and told me I need a new carb.

Still, I'm not sure I need a new carb. No matter how many times I've tried screwing that fitting with the needle attached into the top of the carb, the throttle has never felt right. It feels like the cable is sticking almost, but then I unscrew it and twist the throttle and see that the throttle cable travels perfectly normal.

Is it possible that I reinstalled that brass tube with the holes and jet that screws in on top of it improperly and therefore I can't get the throttle needle installed as far down as it should be going, in turn making it unable to travel it's full length and making the throttle feel stuck?

any other tips? Has anyone else had this issue? It's a 1985 spree.

[gfisher99]

It should go in pretty easily. The smaller/shorter notch matches up with the idle screw, the long groove faces away from you and lines up with the notch in the carb.

Your best bet will probably be to take the carb off the scooter and try to install the slide. That way, you can look into the air intake side of the carb and see if something is binding or if the needle is hitting the emulsion tube (the brass thing with holes in it). The emulsion tube should be raised inside the carb a little. Im not sure its even possible to install it upside down.

Make sure your needle is not bent as well.

I was recently sold a carb for an elite, and the throttle slide did not fit properly at all, and had symptoms as you describe. Make sure you have the right carb. If you can take some pictures, that would help us help you.

[gfisher99]

Look at this thread:

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... f=5&t=8786

Particularly, look at pictures 11 and 18 from the top.

Picture 11 shows how the emulsion sude should look in your carb if you look thru the air intake side. Notice its raised.

Picture 18 shows the order and orientation of the emulsion tube and main jet. You shove the emulsion tube up into the jet tower until it pops up thru the carb body. Use a plastic or wooden dowel, do not use a metal object to get it in there. Once that's in, you will screw the jet into the tower.

Hope this helps...

Greg

[Rowbear]

I might should add that we had the spree for a year before having any problems out of it, and those only occurred after riding it through a torrential downpour. No parts have been replaced on the carb since I've had it. Plus, I've had the carb off before and didn't have any issues getting the throttle needle re-installed.

with that said, I guess I'm gonna take it off and look it over again. make sure I've got the emulsion thing in there properly and all.

[Rowbear]

thanks for the suggestion of taking the carb off and trying to install the needle gfisher. Doing that, I could tell for certain it wasn't in far enough, the slidey tube with the notch for the idle screw wasn't even visible. So after pushing on the top of that fairly hard, it cleared something that it was getting snagged on and dropped all the way in. I rolled the throttle and it felt good. If I roll it all the way open though, it gets hung, I think on that metal protrusion in the back of the carb, opposite the idle screw, mine must be damaged in a way that causes the throttle to hang if opened all the way.

I'll add some gas and see if I can get my hands on a charger and try starting it to see what happens. If I get it running I'll either try filing that piece in the carb or seeing if I can find a replacement. I'll let you all know my progress on friday or saturday.

It's funny how the spree has been down for about two years, with me unable to get that needle in properly and then one person makes a suggestion that makes a lot of sense and boom, minor problem fixed. Now, if it will start after being unused so long I'll be real impressed.

[gfisher99]

Awesome! Glad you got it in there and somewhat working. Now that you know it will work, you should take it back apart and look at the notch in the carb, and look at the throttle slide valve and see if either dont look right. If you had ever tried to "jam" it in there, either part could be suspect. I would lean more to the slide valve being bad or not properly assembled (if it was ever taken apart), since its a weaker part. The carb is pretty robust and I would think it would be somewhat difficult to damage under normal circumstances.

That being said, if you have it off, you may as well give it a good cleaning - since it hasnt been used in 2 years, it's probably dirty.

[Rowbear]

Okay, got the battery charged and after fooling with it a bit I got it started. It idled well and I revved the engine quite a bit and it seemed to be running awesome but then I tried to ride it down the street and it eventually kind of bogged down and died. Then it wouldn't start back up. I can let it sit for a while and go start it right up, but when I open up the throttle for a few seconds it slowly starts to sort of bog down and eventually dies. I had the plug out a few times to clean the fuel off of it. So, I'm thinking too rich, but it's strange that it doesn't happen until I open up the throttle for a few seconds.

I guess I'll need to make sure I've got all the screws in there right, I have no idea where the idle screw should be exactly and then the screw that is just below it, what does that regulate exactly and what should I set it to? I'm getting plenty of fuel coming out of float bowl.

[odinxxix]

the top screw you need to turn in all the way til it just seats. then back it out 1 1/2 to 1 7/8 turns. then the bottom needs to be close to the same start and let warm up. then turn bottom til you get the highest idle possible. then turn the top screw til the back tire just barely moves that should get you close. make sure that the air filter is in good shape and not a pile of mush in the airbox. clean and re-oil it with 10W-30. wring it out and install. thats should be real close.

[Rowbear]

I fooled with it for a while this morning, still idling fine and reving fine but if I give it gas for a few seconds it starts to bog down and then dies, unable to idle anymore.

the air filter element is in good shape, but dry so I'll try the air filter cleaning steps posted

I looked up the vin and discovered its an '87 not an 85 like I thought, and am a bit bummed that it's an Iowa model.

[Rowbear]

cleaned and soaked the air filter, it's still flooding.

in the interests of full-disclosure, I should mention also that, other than eye-balling it, I have no-idea what the ratio of the pre-mix is that I'm running right now. Plusssss, last time I was putting the carb on, I put the two bolts in backwards and there for stripped the threading in the carb body a little bit, so I can get the bolts as secure as they probably should be.

any quick fixes for the thread damage I caused? would this contribute to it flooding out? would improper fuel mixture lead to it flooding?

[Rowbear]

YAAAAAAYYYY!!! I just rode my spree a few miles with no problems, turned it off and it fired right back up. Thank you all so much.

After spending $65 for a "professional" shop to look at my spree for one hour, only to tell me it needed a new carb and then discovering they didn't even seem to figure out the problem I brought there for, that being I couldn't get the throttle needle and slide all the way in.

I finally got it in after coming here and being told to try putting it on while the carb was off so I could see things better. Then I was able to get the spree started, after not running for two years but it kept flooding.

so I, took the carb off cleaned it out, took an emery board to the little metal tit inside the carb opposite the idle screw just a few swipes until the slide and throttle needle moved freely, removed the emulsion tube, it was removed for probably the first time and had what looked like mud on it, then I did the q-tip and toothpaste trick on the float needle seat, then I improved the float bowl gasket (cause it was slowly leaking), sprayed all the other needles and jets and soaked them for a while, emptied out all the old fuel, checked the fuel filter and cleaned it thoroughly, bought new gas, pre-mixed it 32:1, glued small threaded washers on the carb body to hold the bolts that I had previously over-tightened and stripped the threading in the carb body, made sure my air box was sealed, reassembled, set the air screw, loosened the float bowl screw and cranked it until I knew there was fuel in the bowl, then remembered I just barely had the idle screw in so I tightened it all the way down then backed it off two screws, cranked it and it started right up, then I messed with the idle screw till I had it where I wanted it and Voila, I've got a spree that runs to give back to my wife who will probably thank me tonight

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth Rowbear, after a tidy carb-refresh:

bought new gas, pre-mixed it 32:1,

Uh, are you still running the oil pump? You mustn't run it dry - without tank oil it won't lubricate itself. If it's hooked up, then you don't need premix in the tank.

[Rowbear]

the oil pump is still attached but I have questions about whether it works or not. Regardless I make sure to keep a little oil in it, even though I'm pre-mixing the fuel, just in case. I did check the oil screen today and it didn't look clogged. I cleaned it and re-installed it. If I just unhooked the oil hose while the spree is running and saw oil coming out would that mean the pump is working properly?

[Rowbear]

I guess the oil pump does work, I removed the tube that connects to the carb and oil slowly but steadily came out of it. So, I guess I should feel safe to run straight gasoline in it so long as I keep oil in the oil tank. The oil light does seem to stay on though.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The sending switch can get stuck. Pop it out and manually operate it by moving the float and see if the light goes out.