86 spree won't run

[fairlead]

Hello again.

After spending six weeks redoing the cosmetics on my 86 special edition spree, I went to start it today and no go! I rebuilt the carb with a new needle, as per wikispreedia, and replaced the petcock. This bike started and ran real well last year, cept it would die about two blocks from the house. You could restart it immediately and go again. I attributed this to the bad petcock that was sucking fuel through the vacuum line. I seem to have good spark. I took the carb apart again. Carb cleaner/starting fluid will not even get it to cough, even resorting to the teenage trick of spraying down the plug hole and trying it. I suspect a severely flooded crankcase maybe? I got it to run once briefly on brakeclean thru the carb. It smoked like a *. I've sprayed choked and done shots of gas down the carb yet the exhaust is bone dry leading me to believe the shidt is pooled in the crankcase. The plug comes out every time with oil refuse on it but still sparks ok (I think).

I'm an older guy. I'll take any advice I can get. The carb is perfect. I ground out the intake a bit before I put it back on.

Open to suggestions. thanks Ya'll.

[patthesoundguy]

Dont be spraying brake clean and starting fluid in it to try and start it... that is if you want it to last more than a week. Those chemicals wash all of the oil right off of the internals of the motor and starting fluid can ignite in the carb causing bodily harm. If it wont start on regular fuel fix it its broke did you drain the tank and put fresh fuel in it, how old is tge fuel. Most fuel is only good for 30 days or so somtimes with out stabilizer. Maybe the tank is full of water who knows if its been sitting. Also shove a long piece of stiff wire in the stinger of the pipe to make sure no critters made a home in there that would make it not start and foul plugs

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[fairlead]

Fuel is new, as I've just replaced the petcock. Carb's rebuilt. It started once on brakekleen and smoked like something godawful and quit. I work on mowers for my main bread and butter so I got the basics checked out. How do you know if you're crankcase is full of oil or gas? As much as I've tried starting this thing not one speck of moistures splattered out of the tailpipe, and i believe it should have. Plug appears covered in oily residue after each attempt, but still sparks. Any way to drain the crankcase?

[patthesoundguy]

The only real way to check the crankcase is to either pull carb and intake tube off or pull the cylinder and have a look see. All depends what you feel like replacing for gaskets I guess. Pulling the cylinder will give a proper view no guarantee that you can see well enough under the reed block, unless you have one of those fancy inspection cameras. Might be a pain to tear it apart but if that is your problem you can fix it and you only be out a couple gaskets. And there is a very good chance you are right that there is junk down in the crankcase, because you mentioned the petcock sending fuel down the vacuum line, which leads right down the intake tube in though the reeds and in to the crank case. Which could have dribbled while it was sitting previously to the replaced petcock. Most say the best way get any fluid out of the crank case is to pull the cylinder and pull the motor off and dump it out. There might be easy quick ways to do it without tearing the motor out, it might just take some imagination. If you work on mowers you will totally figure a way to do it.

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[patthesoundguy]

By the way you might not see any moisture come out of the pipe because of its design inside, there is a chamber inside that might not allow anything to come out unless it fills up enough to flow out the stinger.

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[fairlead]

The only method I can find for clearing the crankcase is starting without the plug in for 30 sec. I've tried this and no mess comes out the plug hole. However, with the amount of attempted starts I did yesterday and no trace of moisture anywhere I'm guessing it is in the mufffler? Looks like I may be pulling the cylinder. The motor has 6400 miles on it, should I foot for a cyl/piston at the same time?

[fairlead]

Btw, I worked on one of these a few years ago that had leaked oil into the crankcase and it took dozens of cranks and created a huge mess clearing the cylinder. I get nothing out the plug hole. I am concerned about the compression/reed plates maybe not creating the proper "flow"? This is the science I am not that familiar with. I just can't figure out why I'm not seeing any moisture from yesterday's attempts. The plug only gets slightly glazed with oily stuff when attempting to start, but not enought to stop sparking.

[fairlead]

I started with the simple route and pulled intake and reed plate. I was able to blow some excess crap out of the crankcase this way. It was quite wet, not sure if this gets it all out or not. HOwever, I noticed my reed plate was hanging open substantially. I took it apart and reversed it so the reeds "sealed". Maybe this was the cause of the motor not coughing up the goop in the crankcase.

[patthesoundguy]

New plug right? Try another plug ive had them that sparked fine outside but not inside. And try boosting the battery with a battery charger of at least 4 or 5 amps or the car or other good battery. Sometimes if the battery is good but not good enough it just wont spin the right speed to pop it off. My 84 will behave like that, kinda wants to start and you can prime,choke whatever you try no go. Boost the battery and starts first spin.

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[patthesoundguy]

I think flipping the reeds was a good idea as well, certainly cant make it worse

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[fairlead]

Hello Pat,

After doing the reed cleaning and flip I still couldn't start it. I pulled the plug, and remembered back to my outboard days that some plugs will foul, but will still appear to spark, so I ran and got 2 new ones. After a few tries, and choking the air cleaner off a bit it fired!!!! Hooray. Runs out nice now. I had ground the top of the intake manifold castings which I heard gives you 5 mph. I may have dropped some debris from this down into the reed plate causing it to remain partially open. Made a note to myself on that one. I suspect between the jammed reeds and a fouled plug, this was my issue. Thany you for talking me through this. Btw, what are the usual carb jet settings. I've seeen 1 7/8 for the hi, but not sure on the low. Not sure if my freer flowing intake will create any difference. Plus its 30 degrees here in upper michigan, and I hate to final adjust yet.

Once again, a bigTHANK YOU! Just glad I didn't rip into the top end needlessly.

[swimmingfree]

here something you may like to read ....http://www.grscooterclub.com/forum/phpB ... =10&t=1991
swimmingfree

[patthesoundguy]

Glad to hear its up and runnin like a dream. The manual has the procedure to set the idle/air mixture , 1 7/8 sounds close and is only a starting point anyway. Opening up the intake tube is a big help. The trick is to take and transition it so the fuel has a smoother path which in its stock form it does not. Rough up the whole inside if that tube to be like a cats tounge it will reall help as well as the opening up you did.
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[fairlead]

Now I'm back to the same problem I had last fall. I can ride about one block and it quits. If I wait 2 min it will restart and go 1/2 a block. Then 1/4 block. When I open the carb drain, there appears to be fuel. There is still good spark. I can run it on the kickstand indefinitely w no load full throttle just fine, but when I let off it dies. If I blow in the gas tank with my mouth when it starts to die it keeps going a little bit. I did no replace the screen behind the petcock, because I was fearful of the chinese aftermarket petcock sealing. Any ideas?

[patthesoundguy]

Dont worry you should be able to clean the screen thats there now. Pull the two lines off the carb and give a little suction on the vacuum line and see if the fuel comes out in a good steady stream. It sounds like there is a blockage in the screen, in the lines or behind the seat in the carb Or the float valve is jammed partialy closed . Testing the flow from the petcock will help pinpoint the issue pretty quick.

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