Replacement Clutch & Springs

[eclark5483]

I inquired with jwpartsplus.com about doing the clutch spring and contra spring swap out for me to save a step and having to tear it apart myself. The response I got back makes perfect sense to me,

Hello
Eric. I think we can help build your clutch using either original springs or the Jog springs. There is no extra labor charge on shoe spring selection. The center spring may be more difficult.
It is my opinion that changing all those thing at once may be counter productive because if it doesnt work exactly as you want we will not know which adjustment or swap is helping or not.
We would be happy to set it up however you request including weighing the shoes and making sure they are all within 0.5 grams of each other.

Jim

so I think I'll just go with the clutch springs first and make sure it's working as it should, then try the contra.

[R1Titan911]

Meh... don't think I wanna do any hacks on it,

QUOTE OF THE DAY FOR THE FORUM OF SCOOT HACKS!, EVEN FOR KIDS!

Love your work clark, whether you hack it or not, it's going to be good!

[eclark5483]

Meh... don't think I wanna do any hacks on it,

QUOTE OF THE DAY FOR THE FORUM OF SCOOT HACKS!, EVEN FOR KIDS!

Love your work clark, whether you hack it or not, it's going to be good!

I guess what I meant by that, is I don't really wanna try something that will change the performance drastically from what it would be stock.

Like for instance, changing the RPM's that it will take for a clutch to kick in. I'm not opposed to doing this mind you, but for the application in this instance, I'd rather not, perhaps I'm just meticulous. My ISU version Spree that I am working on, is a different matter. I'm a little more open to trying different performance hacks and suggestions since I will be performing an engine swap anyway.

It's kinda like my daughter's pink TaoTao .vs my blue TaoTao. Exact same model, but hers is pretty much stock with the exception of a better carb (since all those Chinese scoot carbs are junk), while on the other hand, the blue one has performance everything in it and does about 50mph. When it comes to the Spree, which is a classic vintage scooter. I'm a little more hesitant and semi-closed to modifying it for performance then I would be to modernize it with parts (like Jog springs) that can replace what is no longer available. If modernizing the parts gets me better performance, then that's nothing but a plus, but I'd just as soon not play around with untested configurations that were never intended for it in the first place.

[eclark5483]

Ah, the goodies arrived today.

[eclark5483]

So, I guess the way I see it, aside from changing your gears, the clutch center spring is probably the only real tranny control you have over a Spree engine. Ride that belt high = more torque, more HP. The only way I could see the AX24 belt that people talk about as an advantage is in conjunction with keeping that back belt riding high on the pulley. So I can see where this would benefit someone with red springs with an AX24. My approach is based on the BBK. I am going on the assumption the BBK will pick up the slack of the high gears and configuring just a tad stiffer on the clutch springs and contra to get a better launch. For 12T geared Sprees with BBK, I'd absolutely go red (Leo Vince) clutch and red contra (HACKED). You'd be popping wheelies all day with a BBK and the AX24 would just help with the top speed.. Almost thinking of keeping the stock engine in that other Spree, selling the variated AF05E, using that Jap intake and Mikuni carb with stock 12T gears, with some SB50 reeds/ Taz BBK, and see how bad * I can go on a budget. Work at TAKE OFF/LAUNCH instead of top speed on my ISU themed Spree.

[Meatball]

You already bought the mount...do the swap and never look back. You'll be glad you did.

[eclark5483]

You already bought the mount...do the swap and never look back. You'll be glad you did.

Man, I know, right !!!

Maybe I'll just build it, then offer it for sale on here at a very reasonable price.

The blue Leo Vince Springs are going into my son's Spree. IMMA put the red ones into the stock Iowa Spree engine in the project Spree. What happens, happens. I have 2 engines to choose from. I'll flip a coin and sell which ever one I don't go with to everybody here. Mount included if I keep the stock motor. It'll be a hopped up motor for sale either way. For me, it's a hobby. But honestly, I'm kinda intrigued to find out how the Japs get performance out of these engines.

[Meatball]

Going with the variated af05 opens so many new doors on go-fast parts compared to the spree motor. From BBK's to carbs to exhaust to trans parts to gears, etc...Sure, not as many options as the Dio motor but still enough to keep one busy for a long time. Just remember, in stock form the variated af05 eats the modified spree motor for lunch. Not to mention the only BBK available for the Spree has issues that you're WELL aware of.

Also, with the variated af05 motor you have the option of running Met wheels with wider/tubeless tires. Not only does it handle like a dream, it feels much more stable and is safer at higher speeds.

Next thing you know youll be looking for a stretch kit to keep the front wheel down...lol

[MrJumps]

Why do people insist you need power to wheelie?

Also the ax24 belt looses take off at the price of more topspeed. The belt when mounted is at half the pullys travel so its like kn secound gear, so that with taz gears and the bbk your looking at a stupid long acceleration, but if you lived somewhere like ai used to thats completely flat and slow paced in the city you could easily ride for a long while with that setup. And belive me when I say it you can wheelie the s*** out of a stock spree. s*** I used to wheelie a friends eletric dirtbike one of those razor ones. Its all in your trust of yourself and the bike and being able to lean it back intialy after that its balance and reaction times that keep it up.

Also as long as the rear spring fully compresses at some point I wouldnt worry about fooling with it. If it goes early you loose acceleration and drop out the band but if your not doing that your just taking longer to accelerate because its sruck in a lowe ratio and cant ever fully travel to final ratio. Since you dont have a variator your not really gonna get that much of a difrence in take off but maybe just maybe in the inbetween shift of the pullys. As for the triplets that is where your sifrence will come. Before changing them ride the bike and feel for about when the band picks up power when riding and use that rpm range to select your triplets. You wanna take off either in or a little late in the band. The reason is, is that is when a 2 stroke starts making power, scavenging and all that starts to boost itself faster and faster makes * loads of power. Now you may see small wheelies out of it if you pin it, but no major power wheelies like the dios ive seen people do. Some of those bikes lift the tires like a liter bike. Would scare me *, well will scare me *....


I would say if you really want the best control of launch swap the clutch and bell with a dio clutch and bell like ive done. It requires you to cut the kicker panal. Ive used a gy6 clutch and bell the first go around and now ive used the dio and it picked up good. Ax24 belt, stock gears, dio clutch with 7k springs and a stock contra. Take off from 0-15 is trash but after that you feel it run off. I only rode it once though I have to address a crank spline issue. I lost a few uhhh splines and cant find them lol.

[eclark5483]

I want an awesome takeoff. I'm thinking no AX24. I was just sayin.. if you DID go with the AX24, you'd wanna push for a higher torque take off then you would with a normal belt... maybe that's wrong, just guessing, I know nothing. I'll for sure try the red clutch springs on a stock 12T with stock belt. Not looking for high top speed, just quickest launch. An AX24 on a 12T kind of defeats the purpose. Perhaps blue would be more ideal. I am assuming it is just a hair stiffer then OEM.

Since the next dyno run I do on my boy's scoot is going to be with blue Leo Vince springs. I'm hoping the data will help determine ideal power band engagement for the other engine with the 12T. Hopefully we'll see where it's engaging at and see if it could possibly be stiffer. I'd rather start low then start high.

[eclark5483]

Going with the variated af05 opens so many new doors on go-fast parts compared to the spree motor.

So I was thinking on that for a while. I could always sell the engine in my son's scoot and swap the variated AF05E into his. Hop up the ISU Spree using the stock engine. Then I get to play with, and use both engines for different purposes.

Reminder: dealing with child with Autism, don't wanna scare him with a bike that jumps hard off the start. Wanna make the engagement transition as smooth as possible. Saves on clutch wear as well. Only real reason I am using Taz gears.. the start off is weak. Just need to make sure it engages where it would be best suited.

Even with a bad clutch (for now), it's picking right up with the intake changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr3m1_i4g64

Looks like it's about 4500 rpm engagement with a bad clutch. Eager to see what changes with blue Leo Vince springs on a freshly repadded clutch and bead blasted bell housing. I'll make sure that RPM is displayed at the bottom next time to get a pin point on it's engagement and power band.

[eclark5483]

To respawn this topic. Low was too low, going to RED springs. Shooting for OEM spec of 1800rpm at idle +/-100rpm.