Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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JJ Joseph
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by JJ Joseph » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:05 pm

Gee there's sure a lot of shoot-from-the-lip types on the board today! I don't think you read a word of my post, and if you did you got it all muddled up. Did I say anything about "cylinder shut down technology"? Did I recommend running at "10k+ rpms"? Did you miss the part about racing 2-strokes without an oil pump? That sort of mix-up does happen here from time to time, especially when we reply first and think later. The nice thing about these forums is that you can go back and read it again.

Street Sweeper
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by Street Sweeper » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:28 pm

Gentleman in an effort to get back on topic I think we should save the "Should I inject or Pre-Mix?" Debate for another thread. If this thread provides enough accurate info then people will be able to decide what is best for their situation.

Even after reading all seven pages I still have these questions:('94-01 Elite S or SR)

Is there indeed a difference between an S pump and a SR pump?
If so,
a. Part numbers?
b. Visual ques, or physical size differences?(best supported with side by side photos)
c. Method of actuation? Throttle cable or static setting
d. Flow rate or average ratio dispensed, both for the stock settings and wired full open would be best

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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by Street Sweeper » Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:29 pm

I am working on getting some of these numbers now, but I am unsure what model pump I have. My scooter is a '97 and the bodywork says "S". But I have the "Y" shaped throttle cable that opens both at the same time. I usually add oil after three fill ups, so I am saving my slips and will post how much fuel I purchased and how much oil I needed to add to top it off. Then I will repeat with it full open.

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LMH
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by LMH » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:47 am

0 difference between the s and sr pump. All you have to do is look up part numbers. All elites have a split cable that actuates the oil pump. Nice old thread revive.

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Wheelman-111
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by Wheelman-111 » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:39 pm

Greetings:

And 17 months later, I revive the revival.
I disagree with LMH (May he rest in Peas), as my own research shows the restricted "P" pump is NOT the same part number at Bike Bandit as the non-restricted SA50 SR model. I haven't bothered to confirm that on a Honda parts fiche, but my recollection was that they're different too.
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Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by 1man8scoots » Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:51 pm

I'd be interested to compare all of them. Including a zx50. If bike bandit has different part numbers honda will as well. I stand corrected. The volume is what we're going for. I can donate a zx50 pump for who ever wants to do the Pepsi challenge.
I love learning new things!

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Re: OCD Oil Pump Deliberations

Post by travis789 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 6:11 pm

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

I thought I'd give this a bump as there have been a couple of questions regarding Elite S vs Elite SR pump delivery lately. At least this graph gives us a ballpark from which to extrapolate. Keep in mind that the pump stroke is RPM-dependent, and there is every reason to believe that the relationship is linear: at 9000 RPM the cc/minute would increase five-fold.

Careful measurement of oil Vs. Fuel consumed over a few hours of operation could allow us to reset the data for a later-generation oil pump. If someone were truly determined, (and running premix) one could reinstall the pump and hook it up to a catch-can consisting of a graduated cylinder and measure the dribblage over a 10 minute span of operation.

Or is that too anal-retentive? Anyone seen my Thorazine? :crazy:
I was thinking that the catch can wouldn't be accurate because when the system is intact, the oil is not only being pressurized by the pump, but the outlet of the hose is exposed to manifold vacuum which may increase the flow rate. Or maybe I'm being anal retentive. During break in I ran premix for one tank and capped off the manifold port to the oil line( so it wouldn't cause a lean condition) and ran the pump with the line in front of me and watched it slowly pump oil out at 1/2 throttle. After that first tank I switched back to just the pump and so far so good, 40 miles with no signs of inadequate oil. Its worrisome, though.

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Wheelman-111
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by Wheelman-111 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:55 pm

Greetings;

That manifold vacuum thing is a good point Travis. Anal retentive? Pshaw! But the pump as designed is a cam-like affair that won't put out much more oil than the volume of the tiny chamber, ASSUMING all the seals are tight. Maybe a worn-out pump lets more slip by with vacuum. They've been known to let oil out, even with the engine stopped.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:

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vintagegarage
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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by vintagegarage » Sun May 08, 2016 12:20 pm

On page one of this long topic, noiseguy posted a chart from the NB50 workshop manual that shows the oil pump flow in CCs per minute for various positions of the pump lever arm. Following that, there was a lot of discussion involving math and the like, some of it complicated. However, it you buy one of the graduated cylinders from eBay linked to below, life becomes simple. If you have the chart that shows the CC's per minute at a constant RPM, then follow the instructions in the service manual.. i.e. put pre-mix in the gasoline tank, pull the oil hose to the intake manifold off the manifold, stick into the top of the graduated cylinder, run the engine at the constant RPM for 3 or 4 four minutes at a couple of different pump arm positions, and then measure how much oil is in the graduated cylinder and then compare it to the chart. These graduated cylinders are inexpensive, the vendor is reliable and ships quickly, and it ends a lot of guesswork. I haven't been able to find a chart for the later SA50's, and also haven't found one for the pumps that don't have a moving lever arm to change the rate of delivery, such as those on the Spree. In the case of the Spree, I think the chart would be something like delivery rate at various RPMs, rather than delivery rate for various arm angles with a fixed RPM.

In any event, here is the link to the graduated Cylinder I use. It is glass, so it cleans up easily when you are done:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Karter-Scientif ... Swu4BVnWlx

Here are some charts:

For the NB50:
Image

For the NX50:
Image

For the MB50:
Image

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Re: Stock Oil Pump Delivery Ratio

Post by Honda Spree Guy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:10 pm

So did you just drill a hole and added a nipple.
Ridin dirty on a 85 spree
Putting on miles on my spree
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