Not getting spark

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 12:37 pm

Hi I just bought an 85 spree, and when I bought it it wasn't running and I've been trying to figure out why and I believe now that it's because it's not getting any spark. It cranks fine with the electric starter, but there's no spark going from the plug wire to the plug, and upon further inspection/testing there's not even current going to the coil. Also, I don't know if this matters but the engine will turn over whether the kill switch is in "OFF" or "RUN" - it doesn't matter which one it's on. Is this normal? Any help would be appreciated to help pinpoint this problem.

mousewheels · Post by **mousewheels** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:33 pm

The kill switch only kills the ignition. Starter will run just as you describe.

No spark - Lot of parts involoved, narrow it down a bit... Check out the Spree service manual in the tech section of this site. Run the resistance checks over everything -
Exciter coil, pulser coil, ign coil
Check out the CDI per the manual

Make sure that the kill switch/Ign switch path is not grounded when you are in the run position

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:33 pm

the kill switch thing is normal. Break out the multimeter and start tracing wires make sure the kill switch and key switch are working properly. Is the battery charged or is it dead?

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:06 pm

I recently charged up the battery and now it cranks at a reasonable rate, so probably no problem there. I did download the service manual, and I've been looking at the wiring diagrams and started by tracing everything back and forth that has to do with the ignition/starting system. It all seems OK to me, but something interesting to note is that my CDI box is on the left side of the bike rather than the right as it shows in the diagrams.

Also that box near the front of the bike with all the wires going into and coming out of it - I dont fully understand how it's set up. I've gathered that it somehow connects different ones together, but do they have to be in the same row or column or what? Just something that might help me to know what I'm doing better.

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:36 pm

I did some continuity tests and it seems that the black/white wire going from the CDI to the ignition switch is always being grounded, somewhere along the path (accidentally). In the morning going to try to narrow down the exact location.

(In the CDI tests done from the manual, there always seems to be continuity between the ground and the black/white wire at the cdi, regardless of the position of the ignition switch.)

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:16 am

Actually cancel what I said in the last post - I had the kill switch in "off" the whole time so naturally everything was grounded

Now I want to check out the CDI box and the spark plug cap/wire. Also, does anybody know how fast the electric start should be cranking the engine? Mine seems slow but I'm charging it now, and I was just wondering if it has to crank at a certain rate to get the engine to start. (assuming everything else was working properly)

Also, one whole side of the plastic part of my spark plug boot is missing. The metal/tip looks ok but could this cause the whole demise of spark getting to the plug? It looks like this:

rickc · Post by **rickc** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:50 am

snikro wrote:Also, does anybody know how fast the electric start should be cranking the engine? Mine seems slow but I'm charging it now, and I was just wondering if it has to crank at a certain rate to get the engine to start. (assuming everything else was working properly)

Somebody posted this video a while back of starting an Elite 50 engine. A Spree starter sounds exactly the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MiDemauxPw8

Also, one whole side of the plastic part of my spark plug boot is missing. The metal/tip looks ok but could this cause the whole demise of spark getting to the plug?

The plastic boot keeps grease/dirt/crud away from the top of the spark plug, but if everything is clean then the missing chunk of plastic won't stop it from running.

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:02 am

Wow, my scooter cranks a LOT slower than that. I could just keep it charging but how do I know I won't overcharge the battery or something?

rickc · Post by **rickc** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:54 am

I just use the battery charger to power the bike if I know I'm going to be cranking the starter a lot for some kind of repair. That way it doesn't matter if the battery is weak (or dead, or missing from the bike). I got a cheap little 10 amp charger, and it has no trouble cranking a Spree motor.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:10 pm

rickc wrote:I just use the battery charger to power the bike if I know I'm going to be cranking the starter a lot for some kind of repair. That way it doesn't matter if the battery is weak (or dead, or missing from the bike). I got a cheap little 10 amp charger, and it has no trouble cranking a Spree motor.

yea any little 10 amp automatic charger willl work but i prefer a big manual 100 amp unit because i can play with voltages and feed it 15 volts instead of 12 (charges faster and starts easier).

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 6:14 pm

It's getting spark now, but its a really puny weak one, not nearly enough to get it to run. I was at first thinking a bad primary coil but the resistance checks turned out fine so I'm thinking it may actually be good... does anyone know telltale signs/more tests for a bad coil?

I also bought a new NGK spark plug cap to replace the cracked old one and it seems to work well enough. The only other thing I can think of that's bad now is maybe the CDI unit... except I don't know how to test the actual unit. Also, my CDI box looks different and is located differently (on left side of bike as opposed to right) than every one I've seen on the internet, does anyone have one like this?

rickc · Post by **rickc** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:23 am

snikro wrote:Also, my CDI box looks different and is located differently (on left side of bike as opposed to right) than every one I've seen on the internet, does anyone have one like this?

Not me. On all the Sprees I've worked on, the CDI was located just like the picture in the service manual.

DrZ34 · Post by **DrZ34** » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:52 pm

try switching the PRIMARY side of the coil , if the coil is hooked up backwards it will spark however very much reduced output

snikro · Post by **snikro** » Mon Aug 20, 2007 10:03 pm

DrZ34 wrote:try switching the PRIMARY side of the coil , if the coil is hooked up backwards it will spark however very much reduced output

You mean switching the 2 leads that go to the coil? (The black/yellow and the green).

DrZ34 · Post by **DrZ34** » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:52 pm