oil question

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:52 pm

i got a 87 elite s and i cant use 2stroke oil. it wont run. i have 2 elites and they are both the same i use straight 30 oil is this the right stuff??

scooterwerx · Post by **scooterwerx** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:10 pm

ehhh, it wont run with 2stroke oil? as far as i know regular motor oil will not work...what type of oil were you using? premix or injector?

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:16 pm

it was injector fully synthetic 2 stroke and i have it set very lean

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:41 am

1. Compression check. What's the compression pressure of the cylinder?

2. What symptoms occur when you use correct 2 stroke oil? What oil did you use (that DID NOT work) and what oil are you currently using to make it work? SAE 30 oil for cars aren't formulated to work correctly for 2 strokes. 2 stroke oils have to be able to work with direct contact with fuel and have enough detergents to burn off quickly without creating much residue. 4 stroke auto oil will burn leaving tons of carbon buildup post combustion and will lose a lot of their lubricating properties when in contact with fuel.

3. What do you mean by lean? Lean on oil or lean on fuel? Lean on oil could mean rich on fuel. Lean on fuel could mean rich on oil.

a. Lean on oil would mean you're running for example 100:1 is 1 part oil per 100 parts of fuel, which can create an overly rich fuel condition if your bike isn't jetted for that ratio. (lean oil ratios require smaller jetting) Some oils don't lubricate enough at that ratio for example. If you don't want to make your engine last long, go lean on oil. Depending on the overall condition of the bore, piston and rings, worn parts will merit more oil to maintain compression. If your bore/piston and rings have a lot of wear, it's never a good idea to go lean on oil. However if you do go to a higher oil ratio than before, make sure to recheck your jetting, it's possible you will have to upjet.

A brand new bore/piston/ring setup will have more compression because everything's still very tight with less oil (but you should use a little more for break in purposes).

b. Lean on fuel is never good unless you're good at tuning 2 stroke engines. This condition can occur by having a dirty fuel delivery system, dirty carb, too much oil (which will displace more fuel with more oil causing a leaner fuel condition) or simply using too small a jetting when you are supposed to be upjetting. If you enjoy having your engine seize through overheating, go lean on fuel.

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:41 am

im running it just about right with the oil and i was referring to the oil as lean and i was using shell fully synthetic 2 stroke and it would not run

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:51 pm

Well one thing I can garrantee you is that the standard 30 weight crankcase oil is not lubing your engine properly and if it hasn't happened already you will turn your engine into junk shortly.

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:07 pm

that's Wat im afraid of but theirs nothing i can do lately Ive been mixing straight 30 with 2 stroke so its a 50 50 mix but it smokes very badly

anybody have 87 elite same problem??

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 2:08 pm

Greetings:

NoobSnowboarder sez:

that's Wat im afraid of but theirs nothing i can do lately Ive been mixing straight 30 with 2 stroke so its a 50 50 mix but it smokes very badly

after saying:

im running it just about right with the oil and i was referring to the oil as lean and i was using shell fully synthetic 2 stroke and it would not run

and previously saying:

got a 87 elite s and i cant use 2stroke oil. it wont run. i have 2 elites and they are both the same i use straight 30 oil is this the right stuff??

finally he axez:

anybody have 87 elite same problem??

now im not expert dud but seems to me nobody wit a 87 elite s will be doin wat you are so not likely have same problem when you said you wuz runnin strait 30 oil is this right stuff? its not same as later said you wuz runnin 50 50 mix so which is it i hope you not mix 1 part gas to 1 part oil that makes smoke real bad OK? may be can clarify more better.

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:02 pm

I'm still not getting it. How can your bike NOT run on the proper 2 stroke oil? The reason why you're smoking excessively is because you're using the wrong oil to begin with, you're not supposed to run straight SAE 30 4 stroke oil in a 2 stroke engine. It's like coming here to ask "hey I tried to put in a Ford Mustang spark plug into my Elite S and the plug won't thread in all the way, anyone else have this problem?"

Think about it, you're using the wrong oil to begin with then you're running it lean? Your motor is going to look like * during the teardown and it's on its way to blowing up. I know why you're running it lean is to keep down the ridiculous amounts of smoke from using the wrong oil but you aren't supposed to be using straight 30 car oil in your moped.

You still haven't answered the questions we need to help you. If you want help, you need to be more clear and detailed as to why it won't run on full 2 stroke oil.

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:19 pm

You make NO * SENSE. It wont run with the proper oil? What do you mean lean?

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 5:28 pm

Kenny, he stated that he's running lean on the oil. I'm guessing it's because he's using a combination of 4 stroke oil with 2 stroke oil which results in a ton of smoke, so he's choosing to use less oil overall to keep the smoke cloud in check.

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:02 pm

alright first of all not a noob just new to site .
second of all read the posts and don't just read half of it than make you own
now let me clarify.
when i got it it have shop right 5w 30 oil in it i was like * y would would you use this.

next day i went out and got some shell fully synthetic 2 stroke oil. READ BACK SAID USE WITH MOTORCYCLES OFFROAD MOTORCYCLES LAWN EQUIPMENT AND SMALL ENGINES.

I DRAINED THE OIL THAT WAS IN THERE AND PUT TWO STROKE OIL IN KICKED OVER A MILLION TIMES AND WOULD NOT RUN.

GOT A NEW PLUG(HOTTEST ONE I FOUND FOR BIKE) PUT IT IN.
CLEANED CARB.
CLEANED PISTON AND HEAD (WHICH WASN'T THAT DIRTY).
I TRIED WITH REGULAR FUEL. I TRIED WITH SUPER FUEL.
I EVEN TRIED WITH FUEL ADDATIVES.
I RECHECKED MY WORK AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE. STILL DIDNT WORK.
said screw this bought straight 30 and used that for a while. didn't want to mess up engine so now im mixing straight 30 and stroke oil so im making it a 50 50 (oil mix not gas)

so therefore will not run on 2 stroke oil

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 8:06 pm

You are on crack, enjoy wallet lightening for the rebuild. The oil in it has nothing to do with it running, the conclusion you reached on the oil brings me to the conclusion you are one of those people who hates being wrong and you are a NOOB.

Arnadanoob · Post by **Arnadanoob** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:05 pm

nysnowborder wrote:alright first of all not a noob just new to site .
second of all read the posts and don't just read half of it than make you own
now let me clarify.
when i got it it have shop right 5w 30 oil in it i was like * y would would you use this.

next day i went out and got some shell fully synthetic 2 stroke oil. READ BACK SAID USE WITH MOTORCYCLES OFFROAD MOTORCYCLES LAWN EQUIPMENT AND SMALL ENGINES.

I DRAINED THE OIL THAT WAS IN THERE AND PUT TWO STROKE OIL IN KICKED OVER A MILLION TIMES AND WOULD NOT RUN.

GOT A NEW PLUG(HOTTEST ONE I FOUND FOR BIKE) PUT IT IN.
CLEANED CARB.
CLEANED PISTON AND HEAD (WHICH WASN'T THAT DIRTY).
I TRIED WITH REGULAR FUEL. I TRIED WITH SUPER FUEL.
I EVEN TRIED WITH FUEL ADDATIVES.
I RECHECKED MY WORK AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE. STILL DIDNT WORK.
said screw this bought straight 30 and used that for a while. didn't want to mess up engine so now im mixing straight 30 and stroke oil so im making it a 50 50 (oil mix not gas)

so therefore will not run on 2 stroke oil

Whoa buddy, you made this thread by not giving enough information, my first response to you had many questions, many of them still unanswered. Don't get snappy on us just because you made a very vague post and expect us to help you.

arnadanoob wrote:I'm guessing it's because he's using a combination of 4 stroke oil with 2 stroke oil which results in a ton of smoke, so he's choosing to use less oil overall to keep the smoke cloud in check.

I had to guess what you were trying to say. You say we need to re-read your post? You said

nysnowborder wrote:i got a 87 elite s and i cant use 2stroke oil. it wont run. i have 2 elites and they are both the same i use straight 30 oil is this the right stuff??

You said right there that your bike won't run on 2 stroke oil, then you said you use SAE 30 oil. Then you go on to say

nysnowborder wrote: it was injector fully synthetic 2 stroke and i have it set very lean

The reason we're confused is because at first you say it can't use 2 stroke oil. Then by this post it sounds like you are either trying to say that the previous oil was a 2 stroke synthetic injector type or the SAE 30 straight oil you're using now is a fully synthetic injector 2 stroke oil.

I DRAINED THE OIL THAT WAS IN THERE AND PUT TWO STROKE OIL IN KICKED OVER A MILLION TIMES AND WOULD NOT RUN.

But you're fine with using a half and half mix of straight SAE 30 and 2 stroke oil, running the hottest plug is good? If it doesn't run with proper 2 stroke oil, you have big problem or did that not occur to you? That'd be like saying "hey my car won't run if I use 100% car oil but when I mix in 50% 80w-90 gear oil and 50% car oil, it runs fine but smokes like *.

If you don't want to help us by providing key details that you left out, you should see a professional and pay to have them fix your issue. I'm sorry but I don't feel confident that you know enough of what you're doing to post a DIY.

nysnowborder · Post by **nysnowborder** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:59 pm

alright enough b*tching

lets scrap this post and ill redo it hows this
alrighty i did not post enough info my bad

Kenny_McCormic
could be a bit less of a d*ck

there is obviously a problem
not smoking as bad as it sounds bad wording in a rush
not running to lean just a little lean if not right where it should be
and not worried about blowing it up do to i take good care of my machines
also the only thing i could think of is maybe getting to much 2 stroke oil when i tried forcing it to be to rich on oil or was blockage in fuel line because i replaced not to long ago

so again srry my bad and Kenny you cant say anything about me wanting to be right because obviously Ive taken responsibility

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