As most of you know, I respond to numerous emails with questions from the forum(s) via email. Thought you may be interested in the following correspondence:
1) Greetings Jerry! My name's ***** and I'm from *********. I stumbled onto the Honda Spree forum and from reading many of the posts, you appear to be THE source for information on keeping these scooters running. If you'll indulge me in a bit of history, perhaps you can point me to something I've apparently missed. First off, I believe it's an 85 model (no kick starter and was red/white) I bought from a guy at work for $100 about 10 years ago showing 1100 miles. With little more than a new battery and fresh gas, it ran fine for a couple years. Then when riding one day it just "popped" (sounded like the plug popped out of the cylinder head) and died. Cranked but no start and by the sound, very little or no compression. Put in shed and sat for ~ 5 years. This spring, I pulled it out, tore it down and find piston and cylinder are junk. Purchase new (stock) cylinder, piston, rings, g! ! a! sket set etc. from local Honda dealer and rebuild it. Drain fuel and oil, install new battery, plug, air filter, etc. After finally 'nearly' getting it started, I decide I'd better clean the carb. Do that and it does run but seems lean and have to choke off some of the air to the carb to keep it running. I install new fuel and vacuum lines from the valve to the carb, but still is very finicky. OK, I figure "needs a reed valve". Finally find one and install it. Not really any better (and there was nothing wrong with the old one...) With some care I can get it started, but it's very difficult to keep it running. Once it warms up it runs a little better (sputters and must "nurse" the throttle to get up to speed) and I my 12 year old son can actually ride down the street about 200 yards before it starts sputtering and dies. It will restart after it cools down. I tweak the air ble! ! ed a! nd idle screws (per the manual) and finally get a decent idle and drive feel. I'm ecstatic! I ride the thing about 5 miles figuring it's all fixed and I'm all smiles. Next day my son can't get it started again! I try, and it tries to start, but keeps dying (even with an occasional shot of either). Off comes the carb again, for a good clean, I try every setting of the throttle valve, float is good (and set correctly). NOW WHAT? The only thing I haven't replaced is the auto bystarter (I didn't have my ohmmeter to check it...) Could that possibly be the problem? Jerry, my son and I have both spent a lot of time working on this and I've also put in a significant amount of money on this thing already and am really frustrated! I'm an automobile calibration engineer by trade, so I'm real familiar with engines (admittedly I don't have much experience with 2 strokes). ! I ! really! y want to get this running properly so my son can ride and enjoy it but I'm ready to take a ball peen to it! Can you perhaps offer any suggestions? I apologize for the novel, but figured it would be better with some background, than you asking me the standard questions and me replying "yep, did that". I look forward to (hopefully) hearing back from you. Thanks and have a great weekend!
2) Hi ****,
From the background - believe me that helps a lot - and listening to your symptoms, you have carb problems (Guess you already knew that).
Clue 1: If you choke off some of the intake air to get it to start/run, you're confirming the idle circuit in the carb is clogged. The idle jet is just to the engine side of the main jet. It's a small pinhole that you can (should) see light through if the bottom of the carb is removed and you hold the body over a bright light. Never use a pin or other object to clean out the hole. You'll definitely enlarge it and never get the bike to idle correctly. If anything, use a round toothpick to push down from the top of the carb and dislodge any particles. Compressed air is always necessary.
Clue 2: 'Nursing' the throttle to get it up to speed tells me you're getting a lean mix. Some standard causes are a bad air filter or leakage of air going into the carb. Check the joints around the airbox. The suction is required to pull the gas UP from the carb bowl (Mikuni style). NEVER try to start or run without air filter installed. This includes the cover over the filter. It creates vacuum.
Clue 3: If the bike starts and runs until warm, then has a hard time starting after that, the choke is GOOD. Bad choke is symptomatic of no start or flooding at speed.
Clue 4: Make absolutely sure the seals on the reed valve are good. Sucking air around the seals will cause some of the symptoms you describe, but I doubt it in this instance. Reed valves will cause fuel to be back-surged in carb. You know they are bad if the air filter or snorkel tube is wet with fuel. Otherwise they last forever it seems.
Tips:
1. Read and heed the carb cleaning instructions that I've put on several of the Spree forums. If you have fuel problems, the carb cleaning will fix it, if done properly and with patience. Use compressed air and lots of carb cleaner and lots of patience. They are really very simple devices.
2. Make sure you are getting a sufficient supply of fuel through the vacuum fuel shut off valve. Draw a suction on the bottom hose and fuel should run out the top hose. The rubber diaphragm sticks on these little guys and keeps fuel from completely filling the bowl.
3. Make sure the air filter and snorkel are clean and properly fitted. Also, make sure the top cover of air cleaner is installed.
4. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use starting fluid. Way too hot and will burn rings and piston in no time at all.
Hope it helps, keep me informed.
3) Jerry, thanks so much for your timely reply and for the information. I really appreciate the help. I could swear the idle jet was clear when I cleaned the carb the last time (I have plenty of compressed air available) but will pull everything apart again and recheck and clean/reset per your instructions. I'm somewhat concerned with the operation of the vacuum valve. I installed clear Tygon hoses thinking the old cloth/rubber type had deteriorated and it doesn't appear that there is much fuel flowing through the hose to the crab. However, if I pull the fuel supply hose off at the valve and crank the engine, fuel will flow freely out of the valve. In my mind this says the valve is working properly. Correct? Reed valve installation is good, and new gaskets are intact. I'll refrain from using the either from now on. Question: since the engine does not seem to want to star! ! t now, I'm now questioning the choke. Is the <10ohm value in the shop manual an acceptable measure? I'll check that when I take it apart again and also replace the plug since all this tinkering is sure to have fouled it somewhat. Thanks again for the assistance. I'll let you know how I make out.
4) Sorry for the delay in reply. The fuel shut off valve is good.
Less than 10 ohms is good for the choke assy. Make sure you have power going to it when key is on. The problem HAS to be the carb. Let me know what happens after a thorough cleaning.
Jerry
5) Jerry,
I want to thank you for your suggestions and the information you emailed and especially for the post about proper cleaning of the carb. As you suggested, I removed the carb (again) and disassembled and cleaned it exactly as your post recommended. I also replaced the plug and made sure the air cleaner was correctly installed and was sealing properly. Lo and behold, after the fuel bowl filled during cranking, it started and ran! A couple tweaks for proper idle speed and a 1/4 turn to the bleed screw and voila! I suspect I missed some dirt or blockage in the idle circuit, probably in the jet itself. I can't tell you how happy I am to finally get that darn scooter running properly! And as you can probably guess my son is also quite thrilled to finally be riding it. Thank you again for taking the time to write back and help us out. Jerry, I'm not sure where you live, but if you're ever in the ************ area, drop me a line and dinner is on me friend! Have a great day!
*********
Can you help? - ANOTHER HAPPY ENDING
Moderator: Moderator
Can you help? - ANOTHER HAPPY ENDING
Scoot safely
