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Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:32 am
by mousewheels
Over the years, all have contributed to info on differences and incompatibilities when swapping parts between these models. Some differences folks can use to their advantage - such as which head, intake or jug might perform the best? Purpose of this thread is to collect all input and create a Wiki page.

Edit: 04/18/2010 - Update with additional info. Incorporate feedback from this thread to the first post for member convenience.
Edit: 04/23/2010 - Updated - Crank bearings, crankcase differences
Edit: 05/01/2010 - Updated - Left hand control harness changes, Float Needles, 1987 rear fenders
Edit: 05/08/2010 - Updated - '87 plastic, speedometer, front turn signal lenses & base compatible with 87 Elite SE, 84/85 muffler vs 86/87. 50T drive pulley noted as needing to swap from 86/87 for kickstart conversion. Broke plastics out into their own section.
Edit: 06/20/2010 - Updated - added note about SB50 transmission input gear compatibility problem with Sprees. This is causing re-work for those adding aftermarket gear ratios from the Spree --> to SB50.
Edit: 04/19/2011 - Updated - added note that 87 SE50 speedometer fits the '87 Spree

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Electrical
Speedometer 1984/1985 (2 wire fuel sender) <> 1986 (because of 3 wire fuel sender) <> 1987 (physical dimension change)
** The electrical difference is internal to the senders and meter. It is such that one cannot be re-wired to work correctly **
A speedometer from an 87SE50 will fit an 87Spree. The non-restricted version has scaling to a higher mph limit.

Bystarter 1984/1985 (two bullet connectors) <> 1986/1987 (single 2 pin connector) --> Cut/Splicing of the connector allows retrofit.
Note: Double check the 1986 year. The service manual says it was *after* 86 when the change to a 2 pin connector was made.

Flasher - 1984 - 86 2 pin, 87 3 pin.
The 2 pin flasher pinout is directly compatible with some automotive flashers
The 3 pin 1987 flasher has all pins in a line, and was not found to be compatible with common automotive flashers. 3 pint Flasher part number is 38301-KM1-832 and is is used on the larger Honda scooters - CH80, CH150, Ch250, CN250 as well as the 1987 Elite SE.
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =3&t=13779

Fuel Tank Sender 1984/1985 (two wire) <> 1986/1987 (three wire)

Headlight 1984/85 individual wire connections. 1986/87 - 3 pin plug. 1987 headlight mounting bracket differs from 84-86 Spree

Left Hand Control - 3 Harness/connector iterations : 1984/1985 <> 1986 <> 1987.

Spark pulse generator 2 wire 1984/86 <> 1 wire 1987. Two wire may be used in 1987 by connection of green wire to ground
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/downlo ... hp?id=7955

Stator - 1984/85 is a different part number for 1986/87. There is a flywheel difference too, so they may need to be mated up as a pair.

Taillight - 1984-86 <> 1987. 1987 has extra mounts for turn signals. 1984-86 mount turnsignals on the rear rack instead.

Taillight wiring, 1984/85 uses rear rack (frame ground) for turn signal lamp ground. 1986/87 use separate green wire with bullet connector
Front signals - 1987 wiring is different

Turn signals 1984/86 <> 1987 Changed mechanical design & mounting. 1987 lens - compatible with 85-87 Aero, 1987 Elite SE
1987 Front signal base - compatible with 1987 Elite SE. Rear signal base - unique to Spree.

Wire Harness 1984/1985 <> 1986 <> 1987

Engine
Carb Needle: 1984-86 5 notch needle, standard clip location is 4 notch from the top (blunt end) of the needle
Carb Needle: 1987: 3 notch needle, standard clip location is the 2nd notch.

Carb Float Needle: 1984-85: 16155-883-005, some 1986: 16155-883-005, other 1986: 16155-168-681, 1987: 16155-ZE5-005

Crankshaft -
  1. A 1987 crank has been reported to be larger dia at the counterweights, would not fit an 1985 case.
  2. Shaft dia on the tapered magneto end 1984/1985 vs 1986/87.
  3. Bearings - see below topic 'crankshaft bearnings'
    '
1984/85 13000-GK8-000 Use up to 1985 Engine SN FS101939
1985 13000-GK8-303 Use from Engine SN FS101940
1986-87 13000-GK8-780
1988-89 SB50 13000-GS6-000


Crankshaft bearings
1984/85 Spree Drive side bearing (Generic 6004, 20x42x8) differs from 1986/87 & SB50 (Generic 6204, 20x47x14)
The Flywheel side for all Sprees and SB50 are the same (Generic 6203, 17x40x12)
Crankshaft seals for all Sprees and SB50 (left & right) are the same 15.6x23.5x7


Crankcase (left)
1984/85 differs from 1986/87
The crankshaft bearing change listed below prevents mechanical interchange of cranks.

Crankcase Cover (left)
1984/85 (no kickstart) <> 1986/87 (kickstart)



Cyl head: 1984/85 (Squish) , 1986/87 (Dome) http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ds_-_Spree
Cyl: Port timing http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ort_Timing

Drive Face Pulley & Gear (starter) Sprees are 50T (1984/85 have one type, 86/87 another) When converting to kickstart, the 86/87 needs to be part of the change over, SB50 is 64T.

Fan, Fan cover: 1984/1985 <> 1986/1987 (use as a set). SB50 cooling fan is different from Sprees

Flywheel 1984/85 <> 1986/87 different id at crank. Also there is a stator difference between those years, they may only work as a set.

Intake and reeds - SB50 is not common, but an improvement over all Sprees. Missing is a 2nd tap (SB50 injects oil at the carb)
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... f=8&t=2957

Piston: 1984/85 dished top, 1986/87 domed top

Pulley: 1984/85 (aluminum), 1986/87 (steel)
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... f=8&t=1023

Starter motors:
1984/1985 Sprees - 10 tooth
1986/1987 Sprees - 11 tooth
Caution: Mixing starters causes binding, slow cranking and may cause starter motor damage.

Starter Bendix 1984/85 (65 tooth gear) <> 1986/87 (63 tooth gear) (interchange causes binding problems)
1984/85 - 31209-GK8-003 PINION ASSY., STARTER (65T)
1986/87 - 31209-GK8-781 PINION ASSY., STARTER (11T/63T)

Followup from member Ottoman - there WILL be binding if you have the wrong combination of starter and bendix. You can use either 10 spline or 11 spline starters on any year Spree, as long as you have the right bendix to go with it. 1984/85- 10 spline starter with 65 tooth bendix and 1986/87- 11 spline starter with 63 tooth bendix.


Starter Motor, SB50 is different from all Sprees

Transmission - gear ratio differences, 86/87 geared about 9% higher speed.
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ion_Ratios

SB50 transmission input shaft has a 12mm end next to the gear. It mates to a ball bearing. The Sprees are 15mm and are a plain bearing. This is causing a need to modify aftermarket Spree gear sets to fit the SB50.

Other
Front Brake Panel 1984/1985 <> 1986/1987
Front Brake Cable 1984/1985 <> 1986/1987 Note: some 1986 models may have the old cable. There is a ferrule dia difference which prevents cable interchange.

Chrome Fork tips for Spree 1984/86 <> 1987

Exhaust - 1984-85 Spree muffler profile is rounder than 1986-87

Fuel Tank 1984/85 <> 1986/87 Threaded connection for petcock changed

Handlebars Spree 84-86 <> 1987, SB50 differs from all Sprees

Petcock 1984/1985 <> 1986/1987 (Threaded connection difference, early Sprees are a smaller dia)

Rear Brake Cable 1984/85 <> 1986/87 (Ferrule size issue) ---> For the 1986 there's conflicting info. Parts fiche says 84-86, but some 1986 owners had fit problems fixed with an '87 cable.

Rear Shock Absorbers
There is a part number difference between the 84/85 <> 86/87 Sprees. The SB50 has yet another part number. The SB50 shock is 1 1/2 longer and will bolt up to a Spree
http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... f=8&t=1936

Rear Rack - 1985-86 has extra welded on bracket for turn signal mounting. 1987 as none, as signals are part of the taillight

Plastic compatibility

Legsheild 1984-86 - have holes to mount the metal turn signal stalks. 1987

Petcock cover - 1984-86 - same, 1987 cover is integrated into the left/right cover plastic.

Rear Fenders: 1987 - different plastic, reported as more flexible (polyethylene?)
Rear plastic, 1987 floorboard and front faring different than older models, but fit as a set.

Handlebar plastic, 84-86 <> 1987 - changed all, SB50 differs from all Sprees. Interchange is prevented between models by handlebar shape and mounting point differences.

Speedometers - 84-86 Spree fit same years handlebar plastic. 1987 Spree Speedometer and 1987 Elite SE can be exchanged.
1984 speedometers were numbered in increments starting at 0,10,20,30,40mph. 85/86 were 0,5,15,25,35

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:39 am
by fightingplankton
don't forget the pickup on the 84-85 has 2 wires and the '86 only has one.

front pulleys are different between years as well

front forks are '87 are different
and obviously most stuff from the headlight area is different on the '87 including the headlight bracket.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 10:57 am
by mousewheels
fightingplankton - yeah that's the stuff - thanks

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:58 am
by bradmeehan
The brake cable does show the same part number even though the ferrule size is different. However, I have purchased said cable withe the superseded part number and it fits correctly.

Also, the flywheel inside diameters are not the same on 85/86 and cannot be interchanged. The stators are interchangeable though.

And maybe someone can confirm this: The headlight on the 85 has two free wires to connect to the harness while the 86 has a plastic quick-connect.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:09 pm
by fightingplankton
bradmeehan wrote:The brake cable does show the same part number even though the ferrule size is different. However, I have purchased said cable withe the superseded part number and it fits correctly.

And maybe someone can confirm this: The headlight on the 85 has two free wires to connect to the harness while the 86 has a plastic quick-connect.
the service manual states that there is a difference in the rear brake cable between years, but mouse had that already.

yes the '86 has quick connect, not going to take my '85 apart to check that one, but i believe you are correct.

not to change topics, but whilst putting my gf's bike back together, i noticed there is a round bit w/ 2 wires on the speedo(behind it actually). which i assumed was the turn signal relay(please tell me if that is not the case). the manual says the relay was relocated there on the '87. okay, just checked the wiring diagram for it...??? the wires attached are light blue and orange. cant find it on the diagram. Lb connects to right signal, orange to left, but i dont know what it's doing.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:47 pm
by mousewheels
Hey - thanks all for more input!
not to change topics, but whilst putting my gf's bike back together, i noticed there is a round bit w/ 2 wires on the speedo(behind it actually). which i assumed was the turn signal relay(please tell me if that is not the case). the manual says the relay was relocated there on the '87. okay, just checked the wiring diagram for it...??? the wires attached are light blue and orange. cant find it on the diagram. Lb connects to right signal, orange to left, but i dont know what it's doing.
That's a mechanical 'clicker' to make the turn signals audible. It's much louder than the relay.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:55 pm
by noiseguy
Nice work MW.

Someone else can flesh this out, but the '84/85 crank had smaller crank main bearings than the 86/87, so they're not interchangeable. Case halves aren't interchangeable, for the same reason. No idea what the SB50 used.

I still can't get over how different these engines are. Riding an '85 vs. an '87 is a night-and-day difference.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:31 am
by Spreetard
The 86/87 case has alot more reinforcement in the swingarm. And the 87's have glove boxes and as a result the front fairing has less holes because the turn signal mounts are integrated into the glovebox instead of held to the fairing via acorn nuts. That's the only other thing i can think of off the top o' me head...

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:38 pm
by martynkim
Well The left combination switch will not cross over for 86 -87 completely different wiring.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:50 pm
by mousewheels
All - thanks for more input!

Noiseguy - Parts infor shows the drive end bearing to be different 84/85 vs 86/87/SB50. But the stator side was the same. Does that sound correct?

Spreetard - I found a pic of the SB50 case - it really looks more webbed. Have you seen a difference between the 87 and the SB50 too?
martynkim wrote:Well The left combination switch will not cross over for 86 -87 completely different wiring.
I just checked the wiring diagram for the 84/85 . It shows a difference from 86 too. Argh - 4 years, 3 versions. Left hand control is a good one to watch out for. I yet haven't checked, but possibly guys can splice the wires *if all else is compatible*.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:04 pm
by martynkim
martynkim wrote:Well The left combination switch will not cross over for 86 -87 completely different wiring.
I just checked the wiring diagram for the 84/85 . It shows a difference from 86 too. Argh - 4 years, 3 versions. Left hand control is a good one to watch out for. I yet haven't checked, but possibly guys can splice the wires *if all else is compatible*.[/quote]


Well, If you have time Mouse. Please check if wires can be spliced this is the problem I'm facing right now. :nervous:

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:18 pm
by mousewheels
martynkim wrote:Please check if wires can be spliced this is the problem I'm facing right now.
I chased the wires around to the bulbs etc. Everything looks ok, just cut/match the wires. Take a look at the wiring diagram and double check. I can't tell where Honda spliced some of the wires which "T" to other locations in the diagram. It's likely safest to cut/splice the wires close to the left control rather than the other end.

Anyhow by the time you get physically right up for the left control - the wires will be just 1:1 color match and splice.

-- little detail --
Double check this - The high beam wire shows a different letter code 'Bu' vs "Bl' but I think its blue for both. Not Black which is the color for switched +12v.

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 11:29 pm
by martynkim
Ok Cool Thanks Mouse! I'll give it a shot. Low resistance so butt connectors should work? :worship:

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 10:55 am
by mousewheels
Sure - butt splices will do fine.

I solder/heatshrink everything because it's mousewheels fun :lol:

Re: Request for input - Parts Spree 84/85 vs 86/87 and SB50

Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 12:00 pm
by Trafficjamz
Not sure If it was mentioned or not, but the rear plastics from a 1987 spree are made of a different (more flexable) plastic.