Trying to get old spree to run--Help!

Musicman823 · Post by **Musicman823** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:46 pm

Okay guys,

I took noiseguy's advice and read through as much of the previous posts-on this topic-as I could stand. I would like to get some quasi "real-time" advice on this one. Here goes:

A few weeks ago, I found a 84 candy-red spree siting in some broke-down pawn shop. Since I am just getting into fixing bikes, and I wanted a project to work on, it seemed like the perfect deal. The bike had been in the shop for a few months and I'm sure that it had been siting out in the rain for a few decades before that--judging by the rust and gunk buildup. I bought the bike for a measly $60, and it is complete, as far as I can tell, with a few cosmetic exceptions.

1. The tank had expired gasoline and plenty of rust. I cleaned it out using some of the methods I read about online. Cleaned air strainer. It is now free of rust.

2. The oil was very dirty, and I'm not sure, but I think there might have been some rust in it as well. This means that there is rust in the engine, correct? I changed the oil and blead the oil lines. Cleaned oil strainer.

3. The Carb. Dirty, dirty, dirty. I cleaned it out with a major dose of carb cleaner and compressed air. Reinstalled.

4. Battery. Dead. I decided to jump the bike using a car battery, and the starter seemed to be working. I got it to turn but the engine would not turn. I thought that this might mean that the engine was stuck, but I opened up the crank cover and manually turned the crank, and it turned just fine.

5. Before I discovered that the crank moved freely, I tried to engage the starter for about 20-30 seconds. I gave the device a few seconds to rest in between my 7-8 second trials; up to a total of 30 seconds. Based on the information I compiled, this should not have been a problem--should it? At the end of this fated trial the starter motor stuck, and it is stuck today as well. When the bike is juiced, and I press the starter button, I hear the solenoid click, but no turn anymore.

Suggestions please! Thank you, and sorry for the long introduction, but I figured we should get to know each other! 8O

85stroka · Post by **85stroka** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 3:05 pm

rust in a plastic oil tank?
did you change the plug ? do you have spark?
are you getting fuel into the carb?
did you try shooting wd40 into the carb and see if she will fire?
tap the motor with a hammer and see if it will unstick ,if not does it kick start?

hondaman · Post by **hondaman** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:19 pm

It could be your starter pinion gear is rusted or jammed. You have to take the kickstarter cover off to get at that. I hope you drained all that old oil out and put in new injector oil. Also drain and put in new transmission oil .

Musicman823 · Post by **Musicman823** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:20 pm

rust in a plastic oil tank?
did you change the plug ? do you have spark?
are you getting fuel into the carb?
did you try shooting wd40 into the carb and see if she will fire?
tap the motor with a hammer and see if it will unstick ,if not does it kick start?

No rust in oil tank; rust might have been in the oil; I don't know for sure because I emptied it into my general oil pan; later, i noticed rust at the bottom of the oil pan.

Did not change the plug, have not checked the spark. The 84 model has no kickstart. I think someone messed with the electronics or something. When I jump it none of the lights or electronic controls go on (when it's got the juice). I don't think the engine is stuck; I can turn the crankshaft and hear the piston softly moving up and down.

Right now I'm not getting fuel to the carb; but the starter will not turn anymore and I think the pinion is broken or stripped. How much does a new starter and a new starter pinion run--just for my knowledge.

It could be your starter pinion gear is rusted or jammed. You have to take the kickstarter cover off to get at that. I hope you drained all that old oil out and put in new injector oil. Also drain and put in new transmission oil .

How would I know if the starter pinion is no good? I am pretty sure it isn't working correctly, but I don't know how to tell for sure. Yes, I changed the oil. Thoughts?

85stroka · Post by **85stroka** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:42 pm

the only lights that will work without the engine running are turn and brake/red running light,horn will work too.
gotta check spark, plug and spark plug cap.

Post by **noiseguy** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:53 pm

If the engine will turn easily by hand with the plug out, it's probably OK. My guess is corroded wiring, from sitting outside. Do a search on "ferchja", he went through a big rewire on his. You'll need to clean your grounds.

The starter pinion ends should be greased, and the pinion itself lubed up with WD40. Spray and work it with your hands.

Once you get the starter going, stop back by.

niftyfifty · Post by **niftyfifty** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 2:56 am

i feel so sorry for you!

the exact same thing has happened to me, i replaced my starter motor then tried starting and now my starting pinion wont engage! i tried greasing it up but still wouldnt work, the guys on here advised me the gears in my starter pinion are gone, but i can see gears in there and am hesistant to purchase another pinion.

i wish you all the best! please let me no how u solved it

gman75 · Post by **gman75** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:15 pm

I went throught the same thing with my starter motor. It still doesn't start the engine - only seems to have enough torque to move the flywheel 15 degrees and then it stops. I know this because I took off the side cover and held the starter pinion in by hand while I tried starting.

Anyway after multiple cranking attempts, the motor seemed broken and wouldn't even respond to direct aplication of 12V to the terminals. I came back a few days later and the starter motor worked. Wait a couple days and see what happens - I dont know but maybe the starter has some thermal cutoff device that prevents it from overheating.

Post by **noiseguy** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:08 pm

I had that problem with a scoot. It would crank once then kick out. It turned out to be a problem with the bendix (I swapped in one from a runner to determine this.) Greg at uspmale@yahoo.com hooked me up with a new one; problem solved!

Musicman823 · Post by **Musicman823** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:44 pm

New Developments:

1. I am for certain that the engine has not been damaged, and it seems to move quite freely when I turn the crank by hand.

2. I believe Noiseguy's idea that the electronics have been compromised. I am begining to sort this problem out.

3. Would it be cheaper to convert the bike to a kickstart--instead of trying to fix the starter? Which route should I take

4. I love this site.

uspmale · Post by **uspmale** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 9:46 pm

Starters and pinions(Bendix) go bad from sitting. They rust up and corrode inside.
Kick starts are hard to come by. If anyone has one, buy it, before I do.
I have lots of people looking to convert 1984-1985s to that set up.
Good luck, greg

Post by **noiseguy** » Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:16 pm

Glad the site is helping.

It will probably be cheaper to fix the starter. You can disassemble them and regrease them. An RC cars shops can probably help you here.

Most problems lie in the chassis grounds; start there and then go through the connectors on the way to the starter.

You can start the Spree using a large drill and a socket applied to the crankshaft, pulley side. Remove the bendix first, and turn the motor CW

Musicman823 · Post by **Musicman823** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:00 pm

Do I need a battery connection to get a spark? Or is the ignition system independant? 8O

No_Stopping_A_Spree · Post by **No_Stopping_A_Spree** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:25 pm

When I first got my spree, I didn't have a battery and it started via a kickstart, for me it didn't run as good compared to now(with a battery) so you should/will get a spark.

Post by **noiseguy** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:41 pm

You do not technically need it, but I'd jump the scoot off a car battery. This keeps the voltage from running over 14V (and frying your lights, happens sometimes) and is plenty of amperage to crank the starter and fire the plug.