Kick Start Not Working...

[RIOT_S]

Caused myself another issue, figures! :/

Here is the background: Put in the daywot variator and did not tighten the nut to hold it on tight enough, came off while riding. Got it home, got it apart and luckily nothing broken, especially not the drive shaft splines (or so I think...). I take the variator cover off, retighten the nut and find that it doesnt tighten all the way down (the drive face still wobbles after the nut is tight as can be,upon inspection I find that the washer is hitting the drive shaft where it gets bigger -> stopping the nut and preventing the drive face from getting tight(the section the smooth cylinder sleeve sits and the ramp plate sits on) so it wont tighten the drive face. IS THE DRIVE FACE SUPPOSED TO BE COMPLETELY SNUG AND NOT WOBBLE AT ALL - IE IS THE WASHER AND NUT SUPPOSED TO TIGHTEN UNTIL THE DRIVE FACE IS TIGHT?

I find a bit smaller washer (locking washer as well) that fits over the drive shaft. I use this and it tightens the drive face down tight, no more wobble, and everything turns just fine. Put the System back together and it e-starts just fine, drives to 40 mph no issue and shuts off fine. I then try to use the kick start and it just spins with some light grinding noise. I retry e-start and it starts and sounds ok. Retry kick start and same thing, it just spins.

I take it all apart, test that the kick start half moon is pushing the gear thingy out and it appears to be pushing it just fine. The loop thing on the gear thing is over the post as I think it should be. Put it back together and same thing, it just spins with some grinding.

Questions:

1. Is the Drive face too far in now that I used the smaller washer and tightened the nut until the drive face was tight??
1A. IF it is in too far, why? Did I forget / lose some washer when I put the ramp plate, rollers, Variator and drive face back together that the original washer and nut would of tightened it down?
1B. Is the drive face supposed to wiggle a bit and be a bit wobbly? Did my new washer actually srew up the kick start?

2. Is there something amiss with my kick start perhaps (where it will just sping and not engage the drive face)?

Cripes....If Id only quit breaking things!

THANKS!

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Did you swap/forget/lose the variator boss? Maybe it's the wrong diameter/length? Pics would help. It's easy to bugger the splines on the crank if tou don't put some slack in e belt before you tighten the nut.

Check the Service Manual diagrams for assembly sequence.

[RIOT_S]

Greetings:

Did you swap/forget/lose the variator boss? Maybe it's the wrong diameter/length? Pics would help. It's easy to bugger the splines on the crank if tou don't put some slack in e belt before you tighten the nut.

Check the Service Manual diagrams for assembly sequence.

I used the variator boss (thats the smooth sleeve type thing that goes over the cranks, correct?) that was on the bike before. It could be incorrect length with the new ramp plate perhaps.... Im not sure. I did also remove the grease plate off the back as is recommended on this site, perhaps that is part of the lost space issue?

When I was doing the work, I made sure the belt was not too tight (I pulled it to expand the clutch and give it some room) so I dont think the splines got goofed but...

Ill grab some pic tomorrow when I get the cover off again... late now and I am tired of looking at it!

Again - when I tightened the original washer and nut on to the crank the washer would hit where the crank gets bigger (after the nut threads) before it would tighten the drive face tight. The drive face would have a bit of wiggle, not a ton, but a bit. I got a larger sized inner circle lock nut washer that went over the part of the crank that got bigger and tightened (with the nut of course) the drive face snug (no wiggle). Thinking maybe I now have the drive face in just enough that the kick start half moon does not push the gear out far enough....?

Also could just be something goofed with my kick start from taking it on and off...


Thanks wheelman!

RIOT

[RIOT_S]

UPDATE:

Took it apart and put it back together again. Kick start still wont engage but estart works. Took it for a ride and got it to 40 mph. Then on my way home Im cruising along at 38 and SPIIIIIIIIINNNNN. I hit the brake and kill the engine. I then restart and everything seems ok. Drive it home and I cant get it over 24mph and it seems really sluggish to get going. CARP!

I tear apart the variator / belt / clutch cover to inspect and the drive face and nut are not loose. So I take it apart for pictures to get help as originally the kick start wont start the motor (just spins and grinds a little). I put it back together after taking pictures and it starts ok but doesnt get over 24 mph again and is sluggish to get going, DEFINETLY no wheelie power. Do you think SPIIN noise and sudden loss of top end and get up and go is a belt issue or did I mess something up in clutch / tranny?

I got pics following with my question below:

Pic 1:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/860/dsc004031.jpg/

- These are all my parts, everything for putting on the ramp plate, weights, variator, boss, drive face, washer and nut. Is it all i need or am I missing something? Manual says something about thrust washer before drive face but I couldnt really understand...

Pic 2:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/81 ... 41021.jpg/

- My bare spindle, does it look ok / undamaged?

Pic 3:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/dsc004243.jpg/

- Spindle with ramp plate and boss on and pushed all the way in, looks like my boss is the right length...?

Pic 4:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/dsc004144.jpg/

- Ramp plate, weights, variator, boss and belt on - so far so good?

Pic 5:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/dsc004165.jpg/

- Ramp plate, weights, variator, boss, belt, and drive face on - still ok on spacing, general look?

Pic 6:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/34/dsc004176.jpg/

- Ramp plate, weights, variator, boss, belt, drive face and washer on (this is the washer I added so that it would tighten up against drive plate. Previous washer would not get tight against drive face, stopped where splines are on spindle...maybe this is where Im losing the correct spacing for kick start to push drive face around???

Pic 7:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/dsc004198.jpg/

- Ramp plate, weights, variator, boss, belt, drive face, washer, and nut on tight, look ok? I think I have lost a little spacing here TOWARDS the kick start as I believe kick start rubs on drive face but doesnt turn because its not close enough...

Pic 8:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/199/dsc004237.jpg/

- Everything back together, look ok?

Summary: SO I now have two issues I think

1. Kick start wont turn motor over - I think I lost spacing somewhere on spindle where kick start wont go far enough but maybe not?

2. SPIIIIIIN noise I heard while last riding and now cant get over 24 mph and its sluggish off the line, what did I break / do? Ideas on where to start? The scooter is running hard and spinning hard down in the cluthc / tranny, it sounds like I should be gaining speed but I am not.

THanks yall for the help, I can surely use it!

RIOT

[Chicago Ben]

I'm clearly no wheelman but it appears you have reinstalled the variator, boss, plate, and drive gear correctly. Take a picture of your kick start for us so we can eliminate that from the equation. I just recently became a kickstart installation pro.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

It's hard to tell from Pic 1, and I truly hope I'm wrong, but the crank splines appear to be munched. If so, you need a new crankshaft or a truly gifted machinist. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.

It's easy to misalign the outer pulley sheave. If you start cranking down the nut with the splines facing each other, massive Carnage ensues. This is particularly likely if you're using a rattle-gun to spin that nut down. It might not have been you who did the initial damage. It's even more critical when using a longer-than stock pulley boss, where only the outer few millimeters of the splines engage the outer pulley sheave. Another way this can happen is if for any reason the nut comes loose while underway. The outer pulley moves outward and starts "working" on the outer splines and proceeds to munch them all. Sorry if I'm correct, Dawg..

[RIOT_S]

Hey Wheelman,

I thought they were as well BUT they cleaned up nice and the outer wheel will only go over the splines if I have it lined up right, so I hope that doesnt meant they are chewed... That being said I can get to 24mph but cant go any faster so if its spinning or slipping at that top end, then maybe your right? I wonder, if it were really mangled, wouldnt it just spin and not go anywhere? Im not sure...

With the boss on, I can push the outer wheel on far enough that a few mm of splines stick out on the other side, so maybe my boss size is incorrect? Do your splines show at all?

Next troubleshooting - I am thinking of putting the marker marks on the variator and outer wheel and see if the belt is getting all the way out on WOT. Also, marking the outer wheel to the splines and see if it moves or not. One last thought, if the weights are badly chewed, would that keep me from top speed...do they ever get stuck and not go all the way out? The seem to have been chewed by the ramp plate.

RIOT

[RIOT_S]

Greetings:

It's hard to tell from Pic 1, and I truly hope I'm wrong, but the crank splines appear to be munched. If so, you need a new crankshaft or a truly gifted machinist. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you.

It's easy to misalign the outer pulley sheave. If you start cranking down the nut with the splines facing each other, massive Carnage ensues. This is particularly likely if you're using a rattle-gun to spin that nut down. It might not have been you who did the initial damage. It's even more critical when using a longer-than stock pulley boss, where only the outer few millimeters of the splines engage the outer pulley sheave. Another way this can happen is if for any reason the nut comes loose while underway. The outer pulley moves outward and starts "working" on the outer splines and proceeds to munch them all. Sorry if I'm correct, Dawg..

IN pic3 with the belt on, does the distance from belt to the end of the boss look normal? Do the splines look munched here? The outer wheel fits on those splines ok...

In pic 1, I am not missing any parts am I?

[RIOT_S]

Found this from another post on the splines being mangled:



I do not have the inner washer... I think this may be from a spree but can anyone confirm yay or nay that there is supposed to be a washer BEFORE the ramp plate as shown above?

ALSO -my drive shaft does not have the piece sticking out / extended as far on the very inside of the shaft, looks kinda like a boss. Mine is extended very small, maybe it got pushed through on mine (see pic 2 above and the one below):



Sorry for the numerous posts, trying to find info to rattle some knowledge from you folks if you see the right picture. Tough to explain what I see always

RIOT

[Bear45-70]

Unless you have transformed your scooter into a Spree the top picture is useless.

[Chicago Ben]

riot- can you take a better picture of that crank shaft close up?

[Bear45-70]

riot- can you take a better picture of that crank shaft close up?

What the * do you know about it? You had Trafficjamz build your motor.

[Chicago Ben]

riot- can you take a better picture of that crank shaft close up?

What the * do you know about it? You had Trafficjamz build your motor.

A) I live in an apartment in Chicago with limited tools
B) Here is yet again proof that you have the absolute worst attitude I have ever seen on any automotive forum
C) You are an old man with no life, literally 0.

I can't even believe you post s*** like that, if you are so old and wise why don't you act like it

[Bear45-70]

riot- can you take a better picture of that crank shaft close up?

What the * do you know about it? You had Trafficjamz build your motor.

A) I live in an apartment in Chicago with limited tools
B) Here is yet again proof that you have the absolute worst attitude I have ever seen on any automotive forum
C) You are an old man with no life, literally 0.

I can't even believe you post s*** like that, if you are so old and wise why don't you act like it

A) Back when I lived in and apartment in town, I rebuilt my first 1969 428 Cobra Jet in my kitchen on the floor. So whaaaaa on your apartment crap. 600 pound engine to the second floor compared to a 150 pound scooter, whaaa again.

B) Here again is proof you are a wannbe and a whinner.

C) I lived more life in the last 20 years than you will ever live. During the first 20 I did 2 combat tours.

D) You really are to stupid to learn. My post is the truth, you just don't like the truth like every other PC liberal in this country.

[Chicago Ben]

What an absolute clown always looking for a battle