86 stock Spree issue, suggestions welcome

[Mystic]

I just thought I would throw this out maybe someone has some ideas as to my current issue. I just rethreaded one of the bolt holes on my carb since I stripped it when I first got her and have been running with a tiny vaccumm leak, i know this because I had to idle her up real high by screwing the adjust tap all the way down on the throttle cable itself and have been running her rich in order to compensate for the increased air flow. I readjusted the throttle and idle screw and the fuel/air ratio and she seems to idle fine and the throttle response is way better on take off than it was despite my makeshift airfilter the only problem I have now is when i hit a bump she bogs down, like at impact she develops an air leak then returns to normal, if I am turning or going very slow and hit a bump she will die. What I am thinking is when I hit a bump or the scoot is jarred the hose connecting the carb and airbox somehow moves either from the airbox or the carb to allow extra air in for a split second. Anyone have any other suggestions as to what could cause this?

[Bear45-70]

Sounds more like a super high float level and you are sloshing fuel into the intake with the bumps and/or turning.

[Mystic]

I dont see how that is possible bear, if more fuel "sloshed" into the intake wouldnt that make it rev instead of cut out?

[Bear45-70]

I dont see how that is possible bear, if more fuel "sloshed" into the intake wouldnt that make it rev instead of cut out?

Your understanding of engine basics is completely lacking. Engines will only run within a narrow fuel to air ratio band. About 11 to 1 up to about 25 to 1. At the outer extremes, the engine runs crapping but will run. But outside of this band and the engine DIES. Sloshing raw, unatomized fuel into the intake is a real good way to kill the engine.

[Mystic]

You are correct my knowledge is lacking that is why I ask for any suggestions but being a rational creature I am going to question those suggestions so that I may understand the reasoning. I will take the carb back off and check the float height and the needle valve spring. I would think if the float level was too high it would cut the fuel off to the bowl sooner but i dont see how gas could just slosh into the intake so easily especially with the throttle closed or almost closed. I shouldnt even respond or view your posts but you do give good advice when you are not on the rag but heaven forbide not automatically agreeing that you are 100 percent right

[Bear45-70]

You are correct my knowledge is lacking that is why I ask for any suggestions but being a rational creature I am going to question those suggestions so that I may understand the reasoning. I will take the carb back off and check the float height and the needle valve spring. I would think if the float level was too high it would cut the fuel off to the bowl sooner but i dont see how gas could just slosh into the intake so easily especially with the throttle closed or almost closed. I shouldnt even respond or view your posts but you do give good advice when you are not on the rag but heaven forbide not automatically agreeing that you are 100 percent right

You have how the needle and float work backwards. If the level is high there is to much fuel in the float bowl, making the engine run rich, even if it does not sloosh fuel in to the throttle bore. The level is controlled by the float, which floats on the fuel. If set too high, means more fuel in the float bowl.

[gatekeeper]

Had a similar issue with my 85 spree dying when I would hit bumps. Adjusting the float level seemed to help as now it will only die if I hit a big bump. I will adjust further the next time I have the carb apart. (or just avoid the really big bumps)

Bear is correct. Your float is probably adjusted too high, making too easy for extra fuel to get jostled thru the carb into the engine all at once when you hit bumps, thereby flooding the engine out.

I would adjust the float so that it contacts and closes the needle valve sooner as the carb bowl fills with gas, thereby lowering the level of the gas in the bowl. If you hold the carb upside down with the bowl off, after adjustment the float will be physically higher than it was before adjustment (Remember the carb is now upside down) It won't take much of an adjustment to make a big difference in the gas level inside the bowl, so just make a tiny adjustment at first. Too much of an adjustment and you will mot have enough gas in the bowl and risk running too lean.

To me the terminology of working on floats is backwards, like trying to write something while looking at the paper thru a mirror. Hope this helps.

[Mystic]

Not sure how much adjustment can be made considering the float is plastic but I will see what I can do. I may or not have at a vacuum leak around the carb but it only does the cut out now that I took it off this last time I have had it off plenty and have never run into this problem. Maybe I didnt tighten the screw that holds the float pin securely. My question is could a hard jar somehow loosen the air hose connected to the carb from the airbox to cause this problem, it being hardened and warped with age?

[Palero2003]

Bear is right on the above the float is adjustable check out service manual or maybe he can post up the correct measurement. The hose can harden soaking in some armorall or sametype product will soften it back up. But unless just didnt have it on tight don't believe could be just knocked loose from ridding . Could be wrong.
Have you checked wires? Maybe bump is making something ground out or possibly the wires to the coil are loose or boot worn out.
Just giving another idea

[gatekeeper]

Not sure how much adjustment can be made considering the float is plastic but I will see what I can do. I may or not have at a vacuum leak around the carb but it only does the cut out now that I took it off this last time I have had it off plenty and have never run into this problem. Maybe I didnt tighten the screw that holds the float pin securely. My question is could a hard jar somehow loosen the air hose connected to the carb from the airbox to cause this problem, it being hardened and warped with age?

There should be a little metal tab on the float that pushes against the needle valve. (if I'm remembering the spree carb and not another one) That is were the adjustment is made. Just a tiny movement can change the level a lot.

As to an air leak issue, yes a hard jar/bump could effect the air/fuel mixture if an intermittent leak is already present. With the panels off and the engine idling poke and prod all air tubes, air box lid, vacuum lines and see if you notice any changes in idle rpm. Maybe spray the areas you are prodding with water mist while doing it. If there are any changes in rpm/run-ability, the location of the water at that moment will help you zero in on unseen air leaks if you have one.

Sprees are very particular about air leaks.

[gatekeeper]

Bear is right on the above the float is adjustable check out service manual or maybe he can post up the correct measurement.

According to the manual the correct measurement is 12.2mm (+/- 1mm) or 0.48in (+/- 0.04in) This is measured between the edge of the float and the edge of the carb body with the float tab just touching the needle valve. The manual also says if out of spec replace the float. I'll have to go look if I have one out to see if it can be adjusted.


EDIT: OK, I just went to the garage and looked in an extra carb I have for parts. I stand corrected. There is no metal tab on the spree float. All plastic. (I was thinking of the float on my Adly 150. Sorry) You "might" be able to make a teeny tiny adjustment but I'd be really careful. And if the float screw is even a little loose it will make a big difference on the float level as in allowing the gas level to rise to high.

[Mystic]

thanks for the info. I already knew the float cant really be adjusted by the tab. I took it off again and checked everything except float level. not really anything i can do if the float is messed up other than get a new one. I still think its an air leak somewhere when i hit a bump, imma try and locate new intake gaskets and a float needle just to be on a the level. It just seems strange it didnt do that while my carb threads were shot but now that i have it bolted on tight it messes up. honestly I am tired of spending money on this thing hahah especially when I am almost done with my other spree engine swap. I will give her another go tomorrow and see what I can do otherwise I may just try to avoid bump even though i live on a gravel road in a rural area, the whole road is a pot hole

[martynkim]

Quoting Mystic......

I just thought I would throw this out maybe someone has some ideas as to my current issue. I just rethreaded one of the bolt holes on my carb since I stripped it when I first got her and have been running with a tiny vaccumm leak,


Vaccum leak still exists, float is faulty. Best bet, get another carb likely easier and cheaper.

[Mystic]

As bad as I hate to admit it but I believe you were right Bear I swapped the float from my elite which happens to be the same as the spree for future reference and it seemed to run a little better on bumps with the throttle at least half open. still bogs or shuts off at closed throttle or 1/3 because the spring seat on the float valve is worn down and the spot on the float where the spring rests has worn an idention that you almost cannot see with the naked eye. I swapped floats for the time being till I can find a proper replacement but I have to order a needle because the elite and Spree are not interchangable imma order new intake gaskets to be on the safe side and a new filter element while I am ordering stuffs.

[Mystic]

I thought I would up date this a bit, I swapped the float from my elite which is compatible but not the valve from 94-01, the sa50 88-93 is the same not that it helps me any. it seemed to run a tiny bit better but still cut out on the rub board that is my road. sooo while waiting for a valve and float to come in for the spree i decided to do a little experimentation. I have been running without an exhaust gasket so i took an extra one i had for the elite and cut a chunk out of it and bent it back round and staggered the layers so that the cut section would be spaced out evenly so as to prevent any leaks. took her out and she only bogs on deep holes so I am thinking a large enough jar creates a leak around the exhaust at the moment of combustion causing me to lose some compression till I even out. before i had a gasket i couldnt jump up and down now i can without it bogging. ALSO I cross referenced the float valves and the same part number was used in my 83 c70 so I took it out and put that in the spree also, a tiny improvement but still the same. I put the spree valve in the c70 and it runs without a problem. I am willing to bet that at impact the exhaust opens a fraction at the head releasing some of my atomized fuel before it can properly combust. For future reference I have copied a list of most honda models that use the 16155-882-005 float needle, might be good to put in the wiki wheelman also could the melted plastic in these pictures be a symptom of my exhaust leak?

This Honda 16155-883-005 VALVE, FLOAT is also used on these models and components:

1978 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1979 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 79-83
1979 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1980 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 79-83
1980 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1981 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 79-83
1981 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1982 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 79-83
1982 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1983 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 79-83
1983 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1984 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 84-85
1984 ATC125M A CARBURETOR
1984 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1985 ATC110 A CARBURETOR 84-85
1985 ATC125M A CARBURETOR
1985 ATC70 A CARBURETOR
1985 TRX125 A CARBURETOR
1978 CT70 A CARBURETOR 78-79
1978 CT90 A CARBURETOR 78-79
1978 NC50 A CARBURETOR (2)
1979 CT70 A CARBURETOR 78-79
1979 CT90 A CARBURETOR 78-79
1979 NA50 A CARBURETOR 79-80
1979 NC50 A CARBURETOR (2)
1979 PA50I A CARBURETOR
1979 PA50II A CARBURETOR
1979 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1980 C70 A CARBURETOR
1980 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1980 CT70 A CARBURETOR 80-81
1980 NA50 A CARBURETOR 79-80
1980 NC50 A CARBURETOR 80
1980 PA50II A CARBURETOR
1980 XL80S A CARBURETOR 80-82
1980 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1981 C70 A CARBURETOR
1981 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1981 CT70 A CARBURETOR 80-81
1981 NA50 A CARBURETOR 81
1981 NC50 A CARBURETOR 81
1981 NX50M A CARBURETOR
1981 PA50II A CARBURETOR
1981 XL80S A CARBURETOR 80-82
1981 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1982 C70 A CARBURETOR
1982 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1982 CT110 AW CARBURETOR
1982 CT70 A CARBURETOR 82
1982 MB5 A CARBURETOR
1982 NC50 A CARBURETOR
1982 NC50 AA CARBURETOR
1982 NU50 A CARBURETOR
1982 NU50 AA CARBURETOR
1982 NU50M A CARBURETOR
1982 NU50M AA CARBURETOR
1982 NX50M A CARBURETOR
1982 PA50II A CARBURETOR
1982 XL80S A CARBURETOR 80-82
1982 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1983 C70 A CARBURETOR
1983 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1983 NC50 A CARBURETOR
1983 NC50 AA CARBURETOR
1983 NU50 A CARBURETOR
1983 NU50 AA CARBURETOR
1983 NU50M A CARBURETOR
1983 NU50M AA CARBURETOR
1983 PA50II A CARBURETOR
1983 XL80S A CARBURETOR 83-85
1983 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1984 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1984 XL80S A CARBURETOR 83-85
1984 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1985 XL80S A CARBURETOR 83-85
1985 XL80S AC CARBURETOR 83-85
1985 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1986 CT110 A CARBURETOR
1986 CT110 AC CARBURETOR
1986 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1986 Z50RD A CARBURETOR
1987 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1988 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1988 ZB50 A CARBURETOR
1989 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1990 NS50F A CARBURETOR
1991 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1992 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1993 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1994 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1995 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1996 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1997 XR70R A CARBURETOR
1997 Z50R A CARBURETOR

1998 XR70R A CARBURETOR
1998 Z50R A CARBURETOR
1999 XR70R A CARBURETOR
1999 Z50R A CARBURETOR
2000 XR50R A CARBURETOR
2000 XR70R A CARBURETOR
2001 XR50R A CARBURETOR
2001 XR70R A CARBURETOR
2002 XR50R A CARBURETOR
2002 XR70R A CARBURETOR
2003 XR50R A CARBURETOR
2003 XR70R A CARBURETOR
2004 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2004 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
2005 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2005 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
2006 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2006 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
2007 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2007 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
2008 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2008 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
2009 CRF50F A CARBURETOR
2009 CRF70F A CARBURETOR
1983 NB50M A CARBURETOR
1983 NH80MD A CARBURETOR
1984 NB50M A CARBURETOR
1984 NH125 A CARBURETOR
1984 NH80MD A CARBURETOR
1984 NN50MD A CARBURETOR
1984 NQ50 A CARBURETOR
1984 NQ50 AA CARBURETOR
1985 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1985 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1985 NB50M A CARBURETOR
1985 NH80 A CARBURETOR
1985 NQ50 A CARBURETOR
1985 NQ50 AA CARBURETOR
1986 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1986 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1986 NQ50 A CARBURETOR
1986 NQ50D A CARBURETOR
1987 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1987 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1988 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1988 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1988 SA50 A CARBURETOR 88-93
1988 SB50 A CARBURETOR
1988 SB50P A CARBURETOR
1989 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1989 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1989 SA50 A CARBURETOR 88-93
1989 SB50P A CARBURETOR
1990 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1990 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1990 SA50 A CARBURETOR 88-93
1990 SB50P A CARBURETOR
1991 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1991 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1992 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1992 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1992 SA50 A CARBURETOR 88-93
1993 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1993 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1993 SA50 A CARBURETOR 88-93
1994 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1994 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1995 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1995 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1996 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1996 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1997 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1997 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1998 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1998 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
1999 CH80 A CARBURETOR
1999 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2000 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2000 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2001 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2001 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2002 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2002 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2003 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2003 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2004 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2004 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2005 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2005 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2006 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2006 CH80 AC CARBURETOR
2007 CH80 A CARBURETOR
2007 CH80 AC CARBURETOR