Honda Elite ch80 1985 starter clutch?

[bigwavedave]

Hey guys, first post here, but have been reading this forum for quite some time now. I've bought, fixed and sold a few sprees just from browsing other posts and learning bits and pieces. I just recently bought a Honda Elite 80 and am having a bit of trouble getting it to run. It's electric start only and the tail light and brake light work when I turn the key on. When I try to start it, it makes a buzzing noise coming from the starter relay and the starter motor. When trying to start, I can feel the starter motor vibrating if i touch it at the same time as holding down the button. The starter motor is brand new and it spins when off the bike and testing it. I've tried jumping it from two different batteries with the same result. From what I've read it seems that it could be the starter clutch? any help would be very greatly appreciated!!!

Here's what I've done so far.
-replaced spark plug, starter relay, and starter motor
-fully charged battery
-checked wires with multimeter from battery to starter motor. everything seems ok

[motormike]

I'm not familiar with HOW a starter pinion fails, but they do.
Sounds like yours has failed if the starter motor is testing good on the bench.
That starter pinion has a bearing on the outer end that could be bad.
Some starter pinions are dependent on the left transmission cover being properly in place so that the bearing end is seated in a boss inside the cover. Does Elite 80 require the side cover to be in place?... I don't know.

[bigwavedave]

In the manual it says: Avoid turning the starter motor with left crankcase cover removed. Guess I'll try to get the starter pinion out and see if there's something wrong with it.

[bigwavedave]

got to the bearing and it is fine. not sure how to remove the pinion/bendix because i can't remove the drive pulley. Is there a way to check it without removing the drive pulley/face/belt? Could it be possible to hold the bearing in place (since it says do not start with cover off) with a socket wrench while hitting the start button just to see what is going on?

[JJ Joseph]

It's easy enough to check the starter by removing the drive cover. You're just checking that the bendix mechanism works OK and flings the toothed gear forward until it engages the larger ring gear. You can see/hear if it's doing what it's supposed to do by just touching the starter switch (no more than just touching the switch). It's possible the entire gear could be missing or jammed - you won't know until the cover is off. When the cover is off you can also check the bearing in the cover shell (not usually a problem). This unit is a routine maintenance item since it will pack up with belt dust over time until it's so full of crud that it won't work (after maybe 5000 miles). It's easy to remove the entire gear assembly by just wiggling it a bit and out it comes. It goes back together the same way by just wiggling it into place.

[bigwavedave]

So I tried starting it up today with the cover off just to see if I could get an idea of what was happening with the bendix or pinon. NOTHING happens at all, none of the gears spin and it appears everything is working correctly. This gave me the idea that maybe my starter is not getting enough power. I hooked up my multimeter to the battery and it reads 12.5 volts with the key in the off position. I turn the key and it drops to 12, then squeeze the break and it drops to 8 and then press the start button and it drops even lower to 4 or 5. I'm thinking I may have a short, but couldn't be too sure. Any ideas??

[bigwavedave]

I decided to unbolt the starter motor and pull it out but keep the red positive wire connected to it and see what happens when i push the button. It doesn't really spin at all (just barely, not even a full revolution) There must be a bad ground somewhere causing it not to spin?? checked the ones that I could find easily and they seemed fine. I'm an absolute noob when it comes to the electrical system, so go easy on me.

[motormike]

I'm starting to think your starter is fried. I suggest repeating a bench test very carefully to have a basis for further diagnosis.

[bigwavedave]

I guess that's possible, but it is brand new. Could I have somehow fried it by starting it while connected but before bolting it into the engine? I'm not too sure how to correctly bench test a starter. I did what it says in the manual but I don't get any reaction from it at all now, not even the slight spin

[bigwavedave]

turns out the engine is seized.. I guess continuously trying to start an engine that won't move with an electric start will fry it pretty quick. d***.

[Pete M]

Where in Florida are you?

[bigwavedave]

pensacola

[Pete M]

If you were close I would give you a hand. I just bought an 86 with an engine problem myself.

[bigwavedave]

thanks for the offer.. any advice? Should I even try to un-stick it?