2001 honda elite 50 sr starting problem, (video)

[dafilla]

Hey guys, I have been painstakingly working on this scooter I got off CL, the prior owners said it ran the last time they used it, about 2 years ago. I have cleaned the carb, changed out the oil, change out the gas and cleaned the tank, new spark plug, and new battery. I wanted to change the lines, but before I put more money, which I don't have, into this thing, I wanted to try to get it to at least turn over. Last night I tried starting with electric start about 4 times, it was sounding a bit closer to turning over then today. I let it sit in the sun for a while, this is the first start today, it is sounding worse than last night. I tried kick starting but out on my patio I could not give it a real heavy kick, but when I did, it did not sound like it was going to turn over. Any help would be appreciated, thank you guys. http://youtu.be/huY90mYu6M4

[bc117]

check for spark and compression unscrew the sparkplug put ur finger firmly against the sparkplug hole and use the electric start to turn the motor over the compression should be strong enough to push air past ur finger, if it does that then plug the spark plug back in to the plug boot and see if it sparks when the motor is turned over, if you got spark and compression then make sure your getting fuel by sucking on the vaccum line to make sure the carb fills completely with fuel, you may have to clean the carb again or use some starting fluid

[dafilla]

check for spark and compression unscrew the sparkplug put ur finger firmly against the sparkplug hole and use the electric start to turn the motor over the compression should be strong enough to push air past ur finger, if it does that then plug the spark plug back in to the plug boot and see if it sparks when the motor is turned over, if you got spark and compression then make sure your getting fuel by sucking on the vaccum line to make sure the carb fills completely with fuel, you may have to clean the carb again or use some starting fluid

awesome tips, I will try that right now thank you

[dafilla]

check for spark and compression unscrew the sparkplug put ur finger firmly against the sparkplug hole and use the electric start to turn the motor over the compression should be strong enough to push air past ur finger, if it does that then plug the spark plug back in to the plug boot and see if it sparks when the motor is turned over, if you got spark and compression then make sure your getting fuel by sucking on the vaccum line to make sure the carb fills completely with fuel, you may have to clean the carb again or use some starting fluid

The compression was there for sure, barely had to put my hand up to the hole to feel a nice big gust pushing out. BUT when I went to check the spark, I kept the plug in the boot, and there was no spark, when I pulled the spark plug out, there was almost a bit a smoke or light mist coming from the plug boot. I have to unscrew the spark plug cap to get the plug boot to fit properly, leaving the spark plug with a un screwed top, that is how the old plug was and figured I should do the same. I'm hoping its not messed up because of that, either way, GREAT trouble shoots, I might need to get a new boot cover for the spark plug, one step closer thank you again.

[swflcarl]

Hello...

1) Verify spark by grounding the plug outside the case to use a length of wire and wrap around the spark plug threads and bolt to frame for ground - then tap the starter.
2) Put a jump box on the battery terminals (or jumper cables)... so it turns hard - or fully charge your battery.
3) Buy a compression gauge and make sure you have 120 PSI.
4) Make sure all your carb passages are clear.... if your bystarter is not working it will make it hard to start. It enriches (fuel) to the carb during the starting cycle.
5) If you like squirt some premix do the plug hole.... it should fire.

Let me know once you start crossing items off the list.

Best of Luck.

[dafilla]

Hello...

1) Verify spark by grounding the plug outside the case to use a length of wire and wrap around the spark plug threads and bolt to frame for ground - then tap the starter.
2) Put a jump box on the battery terminals (or jumper cables)... so it turns hard - or fully charge your battery.
3) Buy a compression gauge and make sure you have 120 PSI.
4) Make sure all your carb passages are clear.... if your bystarter is not working it will make it hard to start. It enriches (fuel) to the carb during the starting cycle.
5) If you like squirt some premix do the plug hole.... it should fire.

Let me know once you start crossing items off the list.

Best of Luck.

Great tips, I was testing the spark plug wrong, and now when I go to test it, the starter just clicks, I'm hoping I didn't destroy the starter, or what I have been reading the starter clutch. I wasn't holding the ignition any longer than 5 seconds, and I only tried to start it maybe 15 times in total. The battery is brand new, maybe from all those starts it just drained the battery, and that is what is causing the clicking. Before it was actually trying to turn the engine over, but nwt it went from clicking in the starter, to slow clicking, and now it just kinda buzzes and I think the relay is clicking, but that is all I'm getting out of it. It would make sense that it was the battery slowly dying, would a brand new battery do that? I'm regretting it now, but I was trying to pull the starter to check for oil or something in there, but there is a screw so badly warped, I have no clue if I will ever pull it out. Earlier when I was checking for a spark, I had gotten a bit of a shock from it, but when I checked for the spark it wasn't grounded and I got no spark from it. I want to start crossing off some of these things, but it may have to wait due to lack of tools and funds. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, having to let this thing sit will just make the gas and oil I put in go to waste. I have seen carbs on ebay going for like 30 bucks, and some trickle chargers going for 20. From past experiences, how much would this kinda stuff cost if I brought it to a shop? Not sure how I would get it there, but I would hate to be buying all this stuff, and not ever figure it out due to my lack of knowledge. Thank you again, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out. The people who sold it to me told me it ran, then they said at the last minute that it didn't, and it would cost at most $75 bucks to fix, I was planning this thing to be my daily driver, now I'm feeling

[paulpauly7]

did you charge the batterey befor you fitted it ? try hooking up some jumper cables from a car batterey and try starting it again it really just sounds like a flat batterey and a now flooded engine and spark plug

[dafilla]

did you charge the batterey befor you fitted it ? try hooking up some jumper cables from a car batterey and try starting it again it really just sounds like a flat batterey and a now flooded engine and spark plug

Thanks for the response, http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/* ... UTF8&psc=1 that is the battery I ordered, it said it comes fully charged, I have been removing it when I wasn't trying to start it. But I guess I killed it trying to get it going, I did about 15 starts, maybe less. Unfortunately I don't have a car or a friend to ask for a jump, and I had to bring it up to my patio due to my complex not letting me work on it in the parking lot. I put a new spark plug in it. but didn't see a spark when I checked it earlier, but I found out I was checking it wrong, not grounding it. If I flooded the engine, how bad is that? I figured my noobness was going to screw this thing up, I'm hoping not too bad. Could I get a spark if I kick started it? just to check the for a spark? If I get a chance tomorrow, I will bring the battery down to oreilys and see if they can charge it for me. Thank you again for the tips, I'm hoping for best case scenarios

[bc117]

yes you can use the kick start for all these tests just makes it a little trickier, when checking compression your finger must be firmly sealing the plug hole, if the air is not strong enough to push ur finger off the hole and escape past, your motor probably wont have enough compression to run
yes the plug needs to be grounded aka the threads just need to touch metal on the frame or motor... i dont thionk you have to worry about spark if you got a shock messing around with it though haha

just squirt some gas preferably with alittle oil in it in to the carb or on the air filter it should start up (dont forget to prime the carb by sucking on the vacuum line) and once running itll charge up the battery and be good as new

[dafilla]

yes you can use the kick start for all these tests just makes it a little trickier, when checking compression your finger must be firmly sealing the plug hole, if the air is not strong enough to push ur finger off the hole and escape past, your motor probably wont have enough compression to run
yes the plug needs to be grounded aka the threads just need to touch metal on the frame or motor... i dont thionk you have to worry about spark if you got a shock messing around with it though haha

just squirt some gas preferably with alittle oil in it in to the carb or on the air filter it should start up (dont forget to prime the carb by sucking on the vacuum line) and once running itll charge up the battery and be good as new

Awesome info I will try first thing in the morning and let you know how it went, hopefully I will have some good news Thank you again

[dun rite]

you really can't check compression with your finger. It takes very little pressure to move your finger off the hole. The only way to be truly sure of enough compression is to use a compression gauge. I hear most auto parts store's have a loaner program were you leave a deposit and borrow the tool. When you take the tool back you get your money back. Your looking for at least 90 psi to run maybe a little less but not much.

[dun rite]

this will help http://www.hondaspree.net/other/SA50_88-02_service.pdf And this has other informative info and things to help you know the scooter better. Good luck and have fun.

[dafilla]

you really can't check compression with your finger. It takes very little pressure to move your finger off the hole. The only way to be truly sure of enough compression is to use a compression gauge. I hear most auto parts store's have a loaner program were you leave a deposit and borrow the tool. When you take the tool back you get your money back. Your looking for at least 90 psi to run maybe a little less but not much.

Hey, thank you for the reply, I was looking at Oreily's site, I remember when I was there I saw a sign for loaner tools. That would be beyond a great idea. I need to get that manual printed out, every time I dive into this scoot I find something else wrong with it, I just don't know if it is broken, or due to another cause making all these problems. But the worst of them has been this thing not even starting. Tomorrow I will hit up some trouble shoots like priming the carb, putting some pre mix in the fuel filter, which I cleaned, and never put any oils back on... duh. I'm finding this simple lil chica to be a lot more over whelming than expected. I seriously cleaned off at least 2 lbs of oil build up off this thing, throttle was stuck, broken head light, lots of chips and scraps on the body. But I'm definitely learning the ins and outs of this thing, a labor of love for sure, and I feel though once it is all complete it will still have been cheaper than picking up a used tao tao or some chinese and more reliable. I really appreciate all the sound advice you guys are giving me. I'm extremely grateful even with manuals, I get so flustered trouble shooting, I just don't know where to turn next. You guys are pointing me in the right directions!

[swflcarl]

Dude... hang in there.

If you have compression and some patients.... this forum will get your Honda running like a camp.

1) Starter clicks when your battery is dead.... no worries - your stater is fine.
2) Verified spark and new plug. GOOD
3) Get your battery charged or simply hook up some jumper cables.
4) Do not hold it down for too long... if its not firing after about 5 seconds - we need to keep working on the carb. (if compression is good).
5) Verify compression...
6) I picked up a compression tester from Advance Auto - well worth it. Its like $30 buck, and you can get 20% off if you buy it online and go pick it up at the store.
7) Clean your air filter... make sure you air box is properly sealed.
8. Clean your carb again... and verify that the pilot circuit is clean and and by-starter is working (search the form on these items) Here is a video that I shot that shows circuit... it is probably the most over-looked item by noobs - myself included.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbNzbwbuqL8
9) If your compression is good, battery is charged - you can put a squirt of premix down the spark plug hole and your bike should fire when you tap the stater.
10) Do not buy a new carb... the keihin is a quality piece and better than any knock off you can buy from China. Stay with it.... it has been my experience that a dirty carb is 90% of the time the main issue on these 2-stroke machines.

Trust me... I am dumb as they come and just started messing with Honda 50 oil burners last September... I have brought back to life a $50 Aero, $100 Gyro, and $150 Spree. They all just needed love and patience. Your rig is quality.... just be patience, and I promise you will be satisfied in the end.

[dafilla]

Dude... hang in there.

If you have compression and some patients.... this forum will get your Honda running like a camp.

1) Starter clicks when your battery is dead.... no worries - your stater is fine.
2) Verified spark and new plug. GOOD
3) Get your battery charged or simply hook up some jumper cables.
4) Do not hold it down for too long... if its not firing after about 5 seconds - we need to keep working on the carb. (if compression is good).
5) Verify compression...
6) I picked up a compression tester from Advance Auto - well worth it. Its like $30 buck, and you can get 20% off if you buy it online and go pick it up at the store.
7) Clean your air filter... make sure you air box is properly sealed.
8. Clean your carb again... and verify that the pilot circuit is clean and and by-starter is working (search the form on these items) Here is a video that I shot that shows circuit... it is probably the most over-looked item by noobs - myself included.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbNzbwbuqL8
9) If your compression is good, battery is charged - you can put a squirt of premix down the spark plug hole and your bike should fire when you tap the stater.
10) Do not buy a new carb... the keihin is a quality piece and better than any knock off you can buy from China. Stay with it.... it has been my experience that a dirty carb is 90% of the time the main issue on these 2-stroke machines.

Trust me... I am dumb as they come and just started messing with Honda 50 oil burners last September... I have brought back to life a $50 Aero, $100 Gyro, and $150 Spree. They all just needed love and patience. Your rig is quality.... just be patience, and I promise you will be satisfied in the end.

Awesome list here, thank you, I'm just about to go out and work on the scoot a bit, I will end up calling Oreilys to see if they will lend me a compression tester, if not I think they have that site to store deal going also. I'm also planning on getting a trickle charger to keep me going working on it, without having to deal with dead batteries non stop. I will let you guys know how it goes, thanks for all the awesome advice guys!