My New 1994 Honda Elite S - Help me get it running perfect!!

[rboarderi]

Just bought a mint 1994 Honda Elite S with 504 miles today! I'm not new to the scooter or moped world, I also have a PA50II and a Spree. I have all the original documents from the original owner and it is a model SA50PR. Is the SA50PR any different than the SA50P? Is there anything special I should know about it? I just got it this morning and took off all the plastics this afternoon and washed and waxed them. I also filled it up with a fresh tank of gas, replaced the spark plug with a new NGK BP6HS and drained the oil tank and filled it up fresh with Amsoil Saber. The air filter was a generic sheet of filter material cut to size so I just ordered a new Honda filter tonight. Right now it does not seem to be running as well as it could, although it does start up and drive. It is puffing out some white smoke when you ride it and it only maxes out 20 tops on the flats and 25 down hill. Seems to struggle a little bit and acceleration just doesn't feel as smooth as my Spree. How fast should this be running? The previous owner said that the carb has been cleaned but I cannot be positive, anyone have the correct carb settings, could that be the issue? I first want to get it running perfect as is, after that I would like to work on the speed a little bit (what way should I go)? If anyone would be wiling to help me out and answer some of my questions that would be great!!!

Here are some pictures that I took of it:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pe2e0vph3w4eb53/fIQzJM2THB

[tazland001]

That thing is in good shape.

I will put this in laymans terms so you understand me
K first thing is you need to remove the restrictors. 1st restrictor is to remove the muffler and look at the end of the muffler that hooks up to the engine. You will see a washer that has a small hole. You need to remove that. You can use a drill and a dremel to do this.
2nd Restrictor is on the kick starter side. Remove the kick starter and you will see the belt. The part your looking for is in the front behind the belt. When you look at the front where the belt loops around you will see what is called the drive face. Remove that and the belt and the next part you will see is called the variator. Remove that and flip it upside down. You need to remove the restrictor plate. You will need to unbolt the restrictor plate. You still use the ramp plate to hold the rollers in. Im trying to keep this simple.

That will help a lot.

The reason it is smoking is because it sat so long. Oil got in the muffler. Hondas 2 stroke scooters will flood the engine with oil if they sit for a long time.It gets so bad sometimes you cant even kick them over because there is so much oil in the engine. But what happened is you started the scooter pushed the oil into your muffler and bam you got smoke. Just go on a good long ride and it will eventually burn its self out. It might get pretty bad before it gets better. lol.

Clean the carb and filter out with some carb cleaner and compressed air. Make sure the pilot and main jet are cleaned out good. Also clean the air filter then you should be good to go. The air mixture screw goes out 2 and half turns and adjust idle screw until it purs like a kitten.

Taz

[rboarderi]

So is the sa50pr any different than the sa50p? I don't see much mention of the pr on here but tons about the p. The derestrictions seem easy enough to do but first I want to get it running perfect stock so that I know everything is working right. How fast should this be running bone stock so that I have a good baseline for when I can start my mods. Which screw on the carb is the idle and which is the air? I have attached a picture of my carb. Also should anything be plugged into the little spigot above te mixture screws or is that for air or something? Thanks!!!

[dun rite]

Hello. welcome to the forum. The Sa50pr sticker under the seat is the color code. Look on the frame under the left side of the scoot for the serial and model number. probably just an sa50p. the spigot on the carb is just a vent. The sa50p should be capable of 30 mph in stock form. When you derestrict it you should also change the main jet to a larger size the sa50 uses a #78.

download this http://www.hondaspree.net/other/SA50_88-02_service.pdf

have fun and enjoy

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The three brass slotted screws in your pic are as follows:

1. The one in line with the slide tower is just a stopper screw. It changes the spot where the slide comes to rest with throttle released. It's simply called the Idle SPEED Screw or throttle stop screw.
2. The screw immediately below, er... to the right of the ISS is the Idle MIXTURE Screw. Starting point is where the Manual suggests for your model, or just about 1.5 turns out from LIGHTLY seated. Don't wail on this one, or you can bugger the tip of the needle and suffer needless grief.
3. The bottom-(Right)most screw is the bowl drain. Loosening it drops fuel though a line (if it's not rotted off) all over your new Florsheims, but this makes carb dismount less messy. Tighten that one firmly otherwise.

Most of the open ports on the carb are vents. If you ride in the rain a lot, it's not a bad idea to clamp on a length of suitable line to keep water out of the carb.

Honda made the "P" models for most states restricted to 30 MPH. Some states (IOWA) required further restriction to 25 for Moped Legality, maybe the "R" stands for that?

[rboarderi]

So I don't have my new OEM Honda air filter yet but I decided to adjust to carb last night with the old generic filter material cut air filter in there. I put the air mixture screw to 1 3/4 turns out like the manual said and hooked up my automotive multimeter to my spark plug wire and set the idle to about 1950rpm. Took the scooter out for a ride and really only hit about 22 on the flats, 25 downhill and I really was struggling to stay at 15mph uphill. It is not very quick to accelerate either. Do you think that the oem filter will fix this? The filter wont be here until Thursday. Is there anything else I can check before then? I feel like my speesd are really slow. And thanks so much for the help so far guys, I have a feeling ill be up and running great shortly!!!

Also...after I get the scooter running right I am going to derestrict the pipe, remove the backing plate on the variator and punch the extra hole in the air box. What size jet should I order? I have read conflicting information on the proper jet size.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

If my theory that you have the "super"-restricted Iowa version, Honda-san himself was forced to make sure it wouldn't exceed 25 MPH, even if dropped from an aircraft. He did a good job.

Not to worry, your SA50's Mighty AF16 block has everything it needs to run 42 in regular "SR" livery, 49 with SR-class power and the addition of gears, or up to 85MPH if you want to do all the possible mods. All you have to do to get started is remove Honda's thoughtfully-applied Party-Poopers.

The Elite 50SR jet is a 78, but remember Honda had to comply with some pretty strict Hydrocarbon Emissions rules back in '94, so it's safe to assume that the Stock jet was actualy pretty skinny. It might run a lot better with an 82 or more. The Secret Code to jetting is 99101-187-0**0. The jet size replaces the stars. Get the 85 and the 88 while you're on the phone if you have the extra $9. Call the Dealer, ax for "Parts Department" and read the number to the Dude. They love when someone knows what he's doing. Deepinnaharta Honda never fails to get my stuff in 2 business days, and shipping is free!

Don't be in a hurry to ditch the stock airbox if you plan to keep it stock-ish. It runs just fine and is safer when you coast down - the small and Fixed Pilot Circuit causes heat spikes when you close the throttle otherwise. Remember to saturate the new filter with OIL, and squeeze it until the drips stop.

Put out a WTB for the SR version of the oil pump and the split throttle cable if you plan to keep it at 49cc. Find the correct SR exhaust or any number of mild exhausts that work with 50ccs, or you can grind out the restricting washer in your headpipe if the muffler is in good shape. This resets your S model to SR form, reliable and durable at 40MPH Plus.

[rboarderi]

I am 99.9% sure this is not an Iowa Elite. For one it was originally bought in Connecticut and two I ran the VIN and it just shows up as a Honda Elite S. I would assume this should go 30-35 stock which is what I would like it to go before I derestrict anything. And it's current 15mph up a small hill...my Spree coiud do 25mph up a hill easy. Makes sense to get it working properly at the right speed before I throw modifications into the equation. Any other ideas why it is running so slow as stated two posts above? What else can I check out?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Regular S-Models are restricted to 30. Three-Zero. Give up on 35. The restrictions reduce power uphills as well as top speed, so embarassing though it may be, the Spree is faster.

Things to check:
Air filter for gum. Replace it - it's cheap and the foam tends to become Closed Cell after a few years.
Carb for clogged passages.
Spark plug replacement.
Compression test.
Variator for flat rollers.
Belt for excessive wear.
Exhaust for Carbon Cakes. The restricting washer may be even more prone to collect carbon than the open header version.
Sticky brake cable.

[dun rite]

Even with the low miles you should check the belt measurements. 15mm width or less it should be replaced, also with the age check for cracks and burn spots. Check the rollers for flat spots, and make sure there is no grease in the variator.

[rboarderi]

Going to order some parts today. So what is the final verdict on the main jet if I am going to derestrict the muffler and variator? I have read 78, 82 and 85. Shouldn't someone know an exact jet number considering so many people have done this. Why buy three if I only need one...

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

rboarderi axtes a perceptive question:

Shouldn't someone know an exact jet number considering so many people have done this. Why buy three if I only need one...

In a word; No. Y'see there are just too many variables to rely on someone else's successful jetting to predict your own. Condition of air filter, compression ratio, port and exhaust carbon, and even things like local ambient temperature, humidity, altitude and the quality of gasoline in your neck o' the woods will make two identical setups need different jetting. One or even 2-3 sizes difference is not uncommon.

Also, remember The Rule:
The ideal jet size is always the one you don't have.

[rboarderi]

So last night I took off my belt and variator to check them out. My belt was a tad under 15mm wide so I am going to replace that. Also a few of the rollers had flat spots in the variator. No what should I do...replace the rollers and just derestrict the variator or buy a performance variator? What is my best bang for the buck with variators and would I need a different belt than the oem one?

[rboarderi]

So I decided to not get an aftermarket variator for now. I ordered 6 new Honda rollers, Honda belt, exhaust gasket and an 82 jet (my new air filter will be here tomorrow). Tonight I took off the muffler and tomorrow I am going to derestrict it. So sometime next week I'll probably check back in with you guys once I have all my new parts and my derestricted muffler and variator. Thanks for all the help so far, I am sure I'll need more soon!

[rboarderi]

Just thought I would check back in with you guys and let you know how it all turned out. So the scooter is running super fast now, a huge difference from before! I replaced the air filter, rollers, belt, exhaust gasket and upjetted to 78 all with OEM parts. I also derestricted the variator and the pipe. A word of advice for people trying to derestrict the pipe and using a dremel...buy a tungsten carbide bit and stay away from the stone grinding wheels. The stone ones take way too long and break often. The 78 jet works just fine despite lots of people saying to use between an 82 and 88. Right now my oil pump is zip tied open but I am thinking of replacing the single throttle cable with a split one and maybe an SR oil pump...I don't really like to rig things up. My max speed from an iPhone app after all of this is supposedly 48.4mph (obviously downhill), not sure if that is 100% accurate although I think it is. I am going to run this same route using two other GPS units I have just to make sure. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. I have learned a lot through all this!