My Aero50 Wont start

[mmeadows]

Starting a new thread in hopes of getting some fresh eyes. if my Aero doesn't start soon im going to cry

84 aero frame
87 aero motor ( leo vince pipe, ported case , freshly honed and ported stock 50cc cylinder)
aero 80 reeds, intake and carb ( uni filter 95 main jet 35 pilot jet)

the air screw has a fixed setting and cant really be adjusted, my float value feels "weak" so i ordered a new one. but my float measured in at the correct/stock 8.5mm

i have spark, my plug is wet.

it ran for a little bit with no filter the stock jets and some throttle.

help

[paulpauly7]

there is probably a cast mould over the idle screw you may need to dremmal it off to adjust the screw(if its in there)

[patthesoundguy]

Pauly is right on the tab on the carb aero 80 carbs have tabs that need to be ground off in order to set the idle mixture correctly for the real world, are you running an aero 80 carb on that thing? An aero 80 runs a 35 pilot, so maybe its just your pilot being a little too large for the bore, hopefully its that simple. Id hate to see that you weren't able enjoy that scooter.

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[patthesoundguy]

That thing should be wicked once you get it sorted out B-) I think you are really close, you have the nice pipe on there so you know its not likely clogged, and the the cyl and case is ported so no restrictions there, uni filter so no restrictions there. Nothing to make it super rich besides the jetting. Good compression? All signs point to it wants to go. I'm sure you have tried different plugs right? I've had plugs that spark outside the motor but not under compression in the motor. And it had me all messed up couldn't for the life of me get the scooter to start until I finally gave in and put in a new plug. Boy was I mad

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[mmeadows]

Pauly: thanks for reaching out even though we sometime bicker back and forth

patthesoundguy: Just bought a spark plug but no go. (although your story made me mad for you)
I don't know what i did to make this scooter run the few times that it did, but i wish i could replicated it and just start heat cycling.

it wont be easy cutting/grinding the tab off the carb. there is very little wiggle room for mistakes or unclean cuts. As a group do we feel the air screw could be the issue here? It just seems like I'm having a BIG problem and an air screw is a small fix. by this I mean I adjust the air screw for when the bike is running "rough" not dead.

will a few turns on an air screw that is not meant to be adjusted really let in ALOT more air for my soaking wet plug?

perhaps im just avoiding the inevitable, but this tab is going to be really hard to cut, and there is a chance i'm going to destroy the carb that took me forever tracking down.

[mmeadows]

what do we think the pilot "hole" would be if it was a jet size on these stock aero50 carbs?

the forum seems to be in consensus that the lack of pilot jet on the aero50 is a bad thing and the cause of many broken down scooters and ruined bbks. i was hoping this 35 jet would give me some cushion with my uni filter and long WOT downhill trips ect.

[dun rite]

to rule out any other issues besides the carb from the 80. You could put the stock carb on to see if it starts consistantly and runs correct

[patthesoundguy]

Take a picture of the tab on the screw and post it if you can. the last aero 80 tab I removed took all of 45 seconds with a carbide burr on my dreml type tool. If you can adjust the air screw to get it to run properly go for it I say. Some thing to watch out for is not enough to tension on the little spring on on the screw so it won't rattle out on the road at least you'll have an idea where to go with the pilot if it runs with the adjustment. Something to keep in mind too, the air hole is only so big on the intake side of the carb its the jet that says how much fuel is let in to the given volume of air let in through the little hole. If you have smaller pilot jets to try, give them a try. If the plug is wet with a uni filter on it now, then you totally can't melt any thing because it won't run to create any heat to melt it . I say jet down till it runs and worry about the temps after the heat cycles are done with.

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[mmeadows]

im sure you guys feel like you are holding my hand at this point but i want you to know its appreciated.

Dunrit: i like this idea, although its alot of work to change the intake and carb and cable just to make sure i didnt rebuild my engine wrong. worst case scenario im going to do this. oh and i dont have a stock airbox and im not sure where my stock jet is lol :/

patthesound guy: ill try and get a picture but i think the issue is i dont have the bit id need, there is about 2 note cards worth of wiggle room to not mess up the carb housing or the screw, but you say it cut fast? like butter maybe? i recently cut a bed frame apart and it was awful. i could always use some silicone to hold the screw in place once i got it working.

the 35 jet is the smallest i can find and might be the smallest they made. i know the aero80/lead 80 in europe had a smaller counterpart the lead50. its acutally not and aero50 but a smaller aero80. our moderators saved me from an international disaster once

maybe, and this is a big maybe, the smaller lead50 used a smaller clone like lead80 carb. and had a smaller adjustable idle jet

[mousewheels]

It's hard to keep up with guys working on several scooters all the time

1) On the pilot jet sizing question -- Aero 80 uses a replaceable jet, and stock is a #35. Honda published numbers for the 'slow jet' (pilot jet) in the SE50 and SA50 88-01 manuals. It is also a #35 jet. The 85-87 Aero 50 engines and carb vs an 87 Elite SE50 is not that much different I'd go out on a limb and say its likely the two have the same pilot.

2) Prior history

i have spark, my plug is wet.

A while back you were working on an 85 Aero, and it had what looked to me a bad oil pump

.. i took off the head itself and about a 1/8 cup of oil poured out of the cylinder. its not clear looking at the gasket where it would have been leaking from.

If that is the same AF05 you are having starting issues with, and a wet plug, it's probably oil, and fouling the plug to the point it will not spark. Here's why - 1/8 cup oil up top, means a whole lot of oil still in the crankcase. Get the oil out of the crankcase, and it will start fine.

[patthesoundguy]

It's hard to keep up with guys working on several scooters all the time

1) On the pilot jet sizing question -- Aero 80 uses a replaceable jet, and stock is a #35. Honda published numbers for the 'slow jet' (pilot jet) in the SE50 and SA50 88-01 manuals. It is also a #35 jet. The 85-87 Aero 50 engines and carb vs an 87 Elite SE50 is not that much different I'd go out on a limb and say its likely the two have the same pilot.

2) Prior history

i have spark, my plug is wet.

A while back you were working on an 85 Aero, and it had what looked to me a bad oil pump

.. i took off the head itself and about a 1/8 cup of oil poured out of the cylinder. its not clear looking at the gasket where it would have been leaking from.

If that is the same AF05 you are having starting issues with, and a wet plug, it's probably oil, and fouling the plug to the point it will not spark. Here's why - 1/8 cup oil up top, means a whole lot of oil still in the crankcase. Get the oil out of the crankcase, and it will start fine.

Wow how did I miss the oil in the cylinder, man I'm slipping that explains a lot.

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[Pete M]

If the plug is wet from fuel, I would twist the throttle wide open and crank it. If it starts you have somewhere to start. I have had a severely flooded engine before and that was the way the Honda dealer suggested I get it cleared. I doubt that the air/fuel adjustment is the immediate cause for action.

[mmeadows]

well no luck yet. im now able to adjust my air screw but it doesnt help. bought a new plug but its stayng clean.

summer is almost over and and i have had virtually no good rides .

im going to buy a compression tester next pay check and see if maybe i put the engine back together wrong. i have spark and fuel so not much is left>

[patthesoundguy]

Compression and timing are pretty much it. I hope you get it sorted. I'm cheering for you

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[Pete M]

You can check the ingition timing with an old fashion timing light. One other thing is to make sure the throttle slide in the carb is closed to the point that the engine is in the idle threshold.