'86 Spree runs then dies
Moderator: Moderator
'86 Spree runs then dies
It starts up, runs for a couple minutes, then dies. After a few minutes it will start again but will run a shorter amount of time. Seems to die once it gets hot. Idle jet screw has negligible effect.No apparent vacuum leaks. Carb has been gone over. Starting to lose my mind on this one..
- martynkim
- Board Supporter
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:22 pm
- Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Several potential issues here. Have you read the manual? Without details on things like was it running? What is the condition of spark plug filter petcock exhaust? More detail prehaps one of us can help.
Need parts? Parting out Spree Aero and Elite!
What people share about buying from me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =1&t=15559
PM me with your needs Cheap Parts
What people share about buying from me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =1&t=15559
PM me with your needs Cheap Parts
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
700 original miles. Airbox leak-tight. Carb-manifold leak tight. Carb dipped, cleaned, float polished, jets blown out and clear. Mix screw turned out 1 7/8 turns. Petcock is supposed to be brand new according to previous owner. Plug looks fairly rich. Adjusting the mix screw lean, only lengthens the amount of time it will run. Has good spark. New plug, good wire and boot.martynkim wrote:Several potential issues here. Have you read the manual? Without details on things like was it running? What is the condition of spark plug filter petcock exhaust? More detail prehaps one of us can help.
A couple of thoughts:
Compression? Seems low on the miles and very clean to have issues here. I will check but, not expecting to find a problem. Maybe torquing the head bolts is necessary?
Clogged exhaust? Also seems unlikely given the mileage but worth a look.
The bike is so simple which is what I think complicates it. I'm guessing it is something minor that I am overthinking.
- martynkim
- Board Supporter
- Posts: 2899
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:22 pm
- Location: Tacoma, Washington
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Check vacum hose to petcock and bystarter
Need parts? Parting out Spree Aero and Elite!
What people share about buying from me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =1&t=15559
PM me with your needs Cheap Parts
What people share about buying from me http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =1&t=15559
PM me with your needs Cheap Parts
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Greetings:
If it starts easily and runs reasonably well for a few minutes, it isn't likely to be compression or spark.
Particularly since the plug looks rich I think it's probably running on the open Bystarter. That's about the time it takes for that circuit to close. Once it does, if the Pilot is still obstructed, your symptoms would be expected.
The other possibility is a float bowl that isn't being filled quickly enough. Insufficient vacuum with the throttle open due to a crack in the vac line or loose connection would close the petcock and stop the flow. Obstruction between the petcock and carb - including the petcock itself - is another possible cause. Martinkim's suggestion covers that angle.
If it starts easily and runs reasonably well for a few minutes, it isn't likely to be compression or spark.
Particularly since the plug looks rich I think it's probably running on the open Bystarter. That's about the time it takes for that circuit to close. Once it does, if the Pilot is still obstructed, your symptoms would be expected.
The other possibility is a float bowl that isn't being filled quickly enough. Insufficient vacuum with the throttle open due to a crack in the vac line or loose connection would close the petcock and stop the flow. Obstruction between the petcock and carb - including the petcock itself - is another possible cause. Martinkim's suggestion covers that angle.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
- Trafficjamz
- CBR1000RR
- Posts: 5353
- Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:53 pm
- Location: Eastlake, MI
- Contact:
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:
Insufficient vacuum with the throttle open due to a crack in the vac line or loose connection would close the petcock and stop the flow. Obstruction between the petcock and carb - including the petcock itself - is another possible cause. Martinkim's suggestion covers that angle.
Fine rust particles can block the in tank filter after a few minutes of running too.
new best 1/8th mile time 9.647 seconds @67.155 mph 310lbs total weight
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
What controls the bystarter electronically? I have 2 bystarters and it seems that neither do anything. If I unplug the one in the carb and plug in the spare, nothing happens to the spare and the bike does the same thing.
- Wheelman-111
- Moderator
- Posts: 11321
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
- Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Greetings:
The bystarter receives current to heat up its element only with the engine running. Several threads describe how to test it. It does not "move" to the naked eye, but it's micro-erection takes place over about 2-3 minutes of receiving current. Once the bystarter closes the enrichener circuit, the carb operates on its Pilot circuit - or Fails to. The fault usually isn't the bystarter circuit itself, but a still-plugged Pilot. Search "Tiny Pin-* O'Light".
The bystarter receives current to heat up its element only with the engine running. Several threads describe how to test it. It does not "move" to the naked eye, but it's micro-erection takes place over about 2-3 minutes of receiving current. Once the bystarter closes the enrichener circuit, the carb operates on its Pilot circuit - or Fails to. The fault usually isn't the bystarter circuit itself, but a still-plugged Pilot. Search "Tiny Pin-* O'Light".
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
- patthesoundguy
- Moderator
- Posts: 3159
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:38 am
- Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
- Contact:
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
The screen in the tank can also be clogged by varnish from old fuel and rust and who knows what elseTrafficjamz wrote:Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:
Insufficient vacuum with the throttle open due to a crack in the vac line or loose connection would close the petcock and stop the flow. Obstruction between the petcock and carb - including the petcock itself - is another possible cause. Martinkim's suggestion covers that angle.
Fine rust particles can block the in tank filter after a few minutes of running too.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Dude! Ya Can't Fix Stupid!
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
84 Spree stock
84 Spree Dio AF18E MHR Cylinder Arrow Pipe 28mm OKO
80 Express, 47mm DR BBKit, Weak Ends Intake, Boyesen Dual stage reeds, 19mm Delorto carb, MLM pipe
79 Express
85 Aero 80 stock
84 elite 125 stock
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
I tested the petcock with a vacuum pump. Flows freely. No gas in the vacuum line. What I did find was a bent carb needle. I straightened it out the best I could. I cleaned the pilot jet again.
Runs and idles pretty well. Seems to lack power overall. I think the bend in the needle had a negative effect on the taper. Especially above 3/4 throttle. Looks like I need to find a new needle.
Runs and idles pretty well. Seems to lack power overall. I think the bend in the needle had a negative effect on the taper. Especially above 3/4 throttle. Looks like I need to find a new needle.
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Anybody know where I can get a needle without buying A whole rebuild kit?
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Take care to get the correct needle for your scooter.
1) Even the OEM Spree had unique part numbers depending upon year and if the Spree were restricted or not -- see info at this link
2) The only carb rebuild kits I've seen are for clone carbs, and they have only one needle. That does not match up with info above showing unique parts for some Sprees
1) Even the OEM Spree had unique part numbers depending upon year and if the Spree were restricted or not -- see info at this link
2) The only carb rebuild kits I've seen are for clone carbs, and they have only one needle. That does not match up with info above showing unique parts for some Sprees
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Excellent info.. All I've seen on ebay are cheap rebuild kits with aluminum needles. With the info above I can search actual part numbers... Thanks!mousewheels wrote:Take care to get the correct needle for your scooter.
1) Even the OEM Spree had unique part numbers depending upon year and if the Spree were restricted or not -- see info at this link
2) The only carb rebuild kits I've seen are for clone carbs, and they have only one needle. That does not match up with info above showing unique parts for some Sprees
-
- Veteran OG
- Posts: 3639
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:10 pm
- Location: North of Seattle, WA
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
Could you post the numbers stamped on your needle? That will help folks find an exact part for your carb
Re: '86 Spree runs then dies
I'll yank it back out tomorrow and take a pic