honda spree wont stay running more than a second or two?????

[suzuki637]

Please help!!! I bought a 1986 Honda spree that didn't run(of course) and have been trying to get it going. I bought an aftermarket carb for it, and have put a new top end(piston, ring, cylinder kit of internet) but still can't make this thing run. my questions are these-- first do I have to have a good battery for the electric bystarter to work? what is the minimum compression needed to run? and is there something else im not thinking of? I also checked the reeds and they seem fine?? new spark plug, fresh gas, and new oil. as a side note, I keep having a puddle of gas/oil at the rear of the motor if it sits for very long. I have taken the kickstart cover off and everything seems fine there?? I consider myself relatively inclined with motors, but this little sucker is starting to shake my faith.

any help would be appreciated
bobby

[suzuki637]

Thanks for the reply. I also wondered if it was flooding so I took the fuel line off for a few days then tried it again. As a funny side note I removed the carb and reeds and it will still kick over and start for a second with a touch of ether down the hole where the reeds sit. Do u know if it requires a good battery to operate the electric by starter?

[suzuki637]

Sorry no the air box isn't on it at the moment but I have tried putting my hand over the back of the carb and such. But as I said it would hit even without the reeds and carb installed???? Wondering about compression and the auto choke. I put a whole new top end on but still only measure around 85 psi. Seems like I read u need more than that to run well??

[paulpauly7]

some of them cheap kits on ebay the base gaskets are not cut properly and ports dont line up correctly .Remove the cylinder chamfer the ports and match up the base gasket with the block.Also those chinese carbs are c r a p clean and use the stock carb and as G9 said make sure the airbox /clean oiled filter and lid are in place correctly .

[suzuki637]

I'll give it a try in the morning. Thanks

[suzuki637]

Fair enough

[patthesoundguy]

OK if it runs for a sec with the carb off then that's a good thing. Usually its reported than under 90 psi compression prob won't run very well if at all. If the compession is good should be 120 or so i think. The battery has nothing to do with the bystarter. The bystarter is in enrichment mode or (choke) mode when cold and the motor gives power to it while running to move the needle to turn the air flow that draws in the extra fuel in. Now I would pull the carb apart and check it out if you haven't already. I tend to do that with a carb that has been shipped especially from China. I would check out condition of the float valve needle and the seat it sits in. Check the level of the float it should be level make sure it moves up and down freely. Hook up a piece of fuel line to the fuel inlet and with the carb float faceing down then blown very gently into the line while very very genlty moving the float to the level position and see if the air flow stops at level. If it goes further up than level the float tab and or float valve needle are out of spec. If it only goes a small amount and stops then its also out of spec and not letting enough fuel in the bowl. The float could be all jammed up and not letting any fuel in. Then check the float bowl there should be a small hole there that feeds the bystarter make sure its clear. Reassemble the carb then blow in the line with the carb the right side up then while gently blowing in the line turn the carb upside down the flow should stop. Install the carb and crank it a bunch to get the carb filled up. You can pull the drain screw on the float bowl to see when the fuel flows when you crank it then close it. Put the air box all back on and make sure the air filter is in good shape. There is a vacuum test for the bystarter in the manual that can be done with an ear syringe to verify it is in the positions it supposed to be when cold and hot. The carb settings will also need to be set up for it to start. So try the starting points in the manual for those screws. The bystarter will only need to be in the cold position at this point so it will start once it runs you can trouble shoot the rest later when the power is there to run it. Try starting again. If it doesn't start try choking the airbox inlet with a rag and see if it starts. Hope this gives a starting point. Especially with a carb that is an unknown.

[suzuki637]

Wow, thanks. I'll get the carb apart again and I will also check the base gasket as indicated earlier. Is there a way to check the crank or rear end for excess oil/gas/fluid ?

[suzuki637]

I have a compression tester, two actually. As I said previously I'm getting around 85 psi. That's five kicks wide open/ about same five kicks throttle closed

[suzuki637]

Okay I took the topend off and cleaned the carb. Put topend back on after checking all gaskets and still only 85 pi. I have decided i might need another top end kit as this one appears to be junk. Checked my tester on my km 350 and it read fine. Does anyone know where to buy parts for sprees. I have checked ebay, motosport and rockymountainatvmc. Can't seem to find anything useful

[patthesoundguy]

You may still have a leak somewhere. Could have roasted crank seals which aren't that hard to do on the spree as long as you can get the flywheel off. A puller is needed. The seals are very cheap. I agree with graphite 9 on double checking the tester as well. 85 psi is really low can't see that running. The original motor that came on my express would only blow about 85 psi on the tester after a top end rebuild. The crank seals were totally shot from a cooked crank bearing. A lot of spree parts can be had online from places like bike bandit and cheap cycle parts and from the Honda dealer. And good old graphite9 is a great price for that big bore kit, he is good like that. Did you squirt some oil in the cylinder before testing the compression? I'd squirt some two stroke in there and let it sit for a couple min then turn it over to coat the rings and cylinder walls. See if the compression raises any. Can't hurt to drop 10$ on some crank seals then you know they are good. Just to double check when you put the cylinder on you scraped all of the old base gaket off right? If it wasn't totally clean you could have some leakage.

[suzuki637]

Yeah I double checked my tester and I did put the metal gasket under the cylinder head. I don't mind to put new crank seals in it but I'm not sure about a leak there as I let the tester sit for a few minutes and it didn't go any lower on the dual. I guess I will justl go with the big bore new gaskets and crank seals and if that doesn't work. I'm gonna have an expensive yard ornament

[suzuki637]

It's a cheap Chinese kit so I have little faith in it. It has been sitting for several years so I think I will just tear it down and start over. Crank seals are cheap I'm told so not an issue. I will need a big bore kit, gasket kit including top end, crankcase( If applicable) and reed gaskets as I destroyed mine getting them off yesterday. Will also want main seals. Can u get me a total?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth Graphite9:

Issue isn't your crank seals. They don't have anything to do with compression.

Sorry G, But I can't agree. (Hey, that rhymes!) If the descending piston blows some of the case air out the seals, the lower pressure inside the case doesn't get pushed up the ports to the cylinder, and the piston compresses a lower initial content. Hence, at least a few points lower on the dial. Same goes for measuring compression with the reeds missing. Won't be Zero, but won't match specs as a few gas molecules escape out the intake port. For a different reason, with the carb installed and anything less than wide-open throttle, the vacuum in the case won't make as big a number when compressed either.

[LMH]

Crank seals will definitely allow compressed air to escape. On a 4t crank seals don't play such a huge roll as the 2ts do. The crank case is part of the cycle. If air escapes or comes in on the strokes it will alter compression and air fuel ratio.