2000 Elite S Autopsy

[vintagegarage]

I started work on my new 2000 Elite S yesterday. When I bought it, the last to work on it said he put on a new top end kit and that it runs, but it sounds like it has bad main bearings. Before tearing into it, I decided to start it and see if that made any sense. When I first turned it over, it wouldn't fire, so I decided to prime it with some raw gas to see if it would fire. I pulled out the carb slide, and then squirted a couple of pumps of fuel into the carb and put he slide back in. When I hit the starter, the engine started right up and ran for a couple of seconds until the prime was used up, and it did sound like bad crankshaft bearings. I primed it and ran it a couple of more times, and the last time ran it long enough to see if the variator and clutch were working, and they were. So I decided to tear into the engine and see what was going on. I removed the engine and put it up on the bench. Here is what I found:

A P.O. had done a very nice job grinding out the restrictor washer in the muffler, as good as I could have done, so no further work is needed there. The airbox had been modified a bit. Instead of punching out the blocking restricting square, he had drilled it out with a big drill bit, so I will probably do a bit more work with an exacto knife or dremel to square it up. The variator restrictor plate had not been removed, and I couldn't find any modifications to the variator and everything looks ok there. The main jet in the carb was a 75, so I assume that the P.O. had upjetted a bit and the motor probably ran well for a while until it blew up. The oil pump was unchanged, and not wired in the WOT position. The left crankshaft main bearing was bad. The right crankshaft main bearing was ok. Connecting rod bearings seem ok. Since I didn't get to see the original piston and cylinder, I am not sure what condition they were in, but I assume they suffered from running with lack of oil.

I'm assuming that lack of oil in the gasoline is what blew the motor up. My question is somewhat academic as I just came home from Honda after ordering a SR oil pump and double throttle cable. I decided to get an SR oil pump instead of using the S oil pump wired fully open or using the S oil pump with a double throttle cable, because as I understand it from other postings on this forum, the SR oil pump has more flow than the S oil pump. I don't want to run premixed gasoline/oil. Was the money I spent on the SR oil pump wasted or is running the S oil pump with the double throttle cable (or the valve wired fully open)really good enough? I do plan to remove the restrictor plate from the variator, install a 78 main jet to begin with, and run the scooter mostly at WOT.

[maddog]

The s/sr pump is the same, the sr is the derestricted version of the S,

[vintagegarage]

If I am looking them up right, they seem to have differeny part numbers? I also found this post:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31898&hilit=elite+sr+oil+pump

If it is true that the part numbers are different, does anyone know the physical difference between the two?

[Dakine]

The Part Numbers are going to be different.. I got jumbled by this as well when trying to find 87elite/Se50 Rear Brake Cables. The Rear Brake Cables for the Dj-1/Dj-1r/R are the exact same as the orginal Se50 but the part numbers where different for the rear cable. The orginal se50 had the ending code "000" and the Dj-1/r/rr was "750".

Could work the same way for the sa50/Sr.

The SR was the DeRestricted version of the Sa50 Also had the Af16e Engine Block and Not the Af06 i think it was.

Everything From your block is interchangeable with the SR Version. Its basically the samething just that the SR Came out with no restriced Variator,Carb, or Exhaust from The Sales Floor. Your motor is an Af16e and so is the Sr.

The SR Came with Different Colored Panels and Stickers.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Quoth MadDog:

The s/sr pump is the same,

This is incorrect information. I have not checked personally, but others have indicated the part numbers are different. So are their respective outputs, according to actual Science, conducted and posted a few years back by a Forum member. If you plan to run the scooter as your post states, I believe the money for the stock SR pump and cable was well-spent. An S pump, even zip-tied wide open, would not dispense the same rate of oil as Honda engineers determined the SR-conversion would need if run at full throttle. The outcome can be speculated to be a dry crankcase after a long run.

[edit] OK so now I checked personally. The 2001 P model pump part number is 15100-GS7-981. The SA50 "SR" has GZ7 between the hyphens.

[vintagegarage]

The first test drive after installing the new main bearings and derestricting the variator went pretty well. Since the P.O. also just installed a new cylinder and piston, I decided I'd better take it easy for a hundred miles or so before using WOT on a continual basis. It seems to me that the piston is a pretty tight fit in the cylinder, but I have never seen new ones until this set. The Aero does go 35 indicated now on level ground.. It has a derestricted exhaust, air filter box, and variator, an SR oil pump with dual throttle cable, and a #78 main jet. I'm running double oil for the first tank.. premix in the gas tank, plus oil through the new oil pump.

I would call the job of replacing the main bearings fairly difficult. It was a bear getting the left bearing off of the crank, and I ended up having to carefully cut it off with a saw, after breaking my bearing separator. That was the bearing with the melted ball cage. Also, the post '93 engines have a larger left side crankshaft nut than the pre '93 engines, and I only had the crank puller for the pre '93 engines. I started by installing the left bearing in the case as per the service manual, and put the crank in the freezer. The next morning, I gently heated the inner race of the left side bearing and was hoping to drop the crankshaft right in, but I had to fairly firmly pound on the crank to fully seat it in the bearing. I think I managed to do it without bending the crank. The rest of the job was easy, as the crank puller I have pulls the right side of the crank for both the early and later engines.

In another post on another subject, I opined that the air bleed screw really shouldn't have much effect on high speed running, but now I am not so sure about that, as it seems to affect the midrange mixture and perhaps high speed mixture a little on the Elite.. not completely sure though. I did just notice that the S carb uses the 16012-GS7-980 NEEDLE SET, JET while the SR carb uses the 16012-GS7-970 NEEDLE SET, JET. The set includes the needle and also the emulsion tube and costs about $25 from Honda. I think I should replace that as well. Does anyone know what is different about the two sets? Is the needle different, the tube different, or both?