85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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petrup93
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85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Long time creeper first time poster. :hi:

I bought a 85 spree that the owner said was broken for awhile and started working on thinking it was just a easy fix. WRONG. After having cleaned the carb thoroughly multiple times i could see a flashlight through both the pilot and idle jet. And tried to start it.........something was wrong. Upon later strip down there was no jug on the piston, so i bought a new cylinder,jug, rings, and gaskets. Honed it and installed. And now for the life of me can not get it started. The petcock delivers gas when i pull, i even filled up the carb bowl before installing so as not to cause unnecessary starter wear. I am getting spark, new plug. I tried putting starter fluid down the plug :nervous: there was a little difference but nothing i would classify as even firing. What is going??

1. I have gas going to carb.
2. I have airbox on and air filter element in....not soaked at all though.
3.I have spark.

Help??
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Meatball
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by Meatball »

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like your scoot is on life support but certainly not dead. You have spark so that eliminates many potential problems.

Test compression. This would ensure the new top end is jiving.

Every element must be addressed when dealing with an unknown "non-running" scoot. From the air filter to the exhaust, all must be tested and checked for proper function and absolute seal.

A new air filter must be oiled and installed and be sure the airbox lid is secure and not leaking or allowing additional air somehow. This is vital for it to start and run. I once installed a K&N type filter on a perfectly running bike thinking it would give me better throttle response...it wouldnt even start.

Carb and all of its internals must be functioning properly like: float needle, throttle slide, etc...be sure the throttle needle clip is on the MIDDLE notch. Make sure the mixture screw is set to 1 1/2 turns out from fully seated.

Intake must not be leaking at any of its rubber o-rings or base gasket.

Reeds must be checked because sometimes they get stuck shut from sitting for long periods of time.

Exhaust must be secure and not leaking from manifold (jug). This would not stop it from starting but it would run like garbage.

If its been sitting for awhile, its a good idea to drain the fuel AND oil and replace with fresh.

Lastly, if your battery dies trying to start it you can connect jumper cables from the scoot battery to a car battery. Just be sure the car is NOT running when you do this. The scoot is not capable of handling a 14.4v zap from the charging system of a running vehicle.

You could also start the scoot by using a drill on the drive face nut if youre in a bind. Belt cover and starter pinion must be removed for this method.
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petrup93
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Thank you for the response. I am going to test the compression in a bit. I blew through the exhaust as well and there is no carbon buildup. I have replaced the oil and fuel.

When you say this "be sure the throttle needle clip is on the MIDDLE notch." What do you mean the middle notch? and as far as the adjustment screws 1 1/2 for the idle screw? or the air screw?

Alright back to work i go!
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by Meatball »

The MIXTURE screw is what I am referring to. Its the one on the right without the spring on it. Take a small screwdriver and LIGHTLY screw it all the way in. Use fingertip pressure when screwing in because over-tightening can damage internals. Once its fully screwed in, un-screw it ONE AND ONE HALF turns out. This is the factory setting for proper air/fuel mixture for a stock 85' Spree.

Needle clip notch: un-screw the cap on the top of the carb where the throttle cable goes in. Gently lift the assembly straight up out of the carb as not to bend or tweak anything. Out will come a big spring, a silver cylinder (referred to as a "slide") and the throttle needle. Peel the spring, ring by ring, up and hold it to the side of the slide. The throttle cable ball tip will need to be removed from its groove allowing the needle to be pulled out . The needle has a tiny C-clip on top with 3 notches. The clip should be on the MIDDLE notch. This is also factory setting for a stock Spree.

Re-assemble in reverse order making sure to install the slide correctly into the carb top. This is done by having the groove on the slide towards the back of the carb. A properly inserted slide should sink all the way down into the carb top out of sight before screwing in the cap. If its getting stuck half way down, its backwards.
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Lmao, a quick google check after my post helped me with the mixture screw as well... :newb: .. that is all good checked the throttle good as well. The compression testing gave me 50 PSI...not good. But as i was doing this i noticed that at the base of the intake manifold whenever i hit the starter air would spew out along with little bubbles of what i am assuming is gas? It is right where the intake manifold meets the red reed cage, i have the proper torque on these bolts...what could be causing this? And could this in turn be my lack of compression?

But now that i am thinking about it on one of my parts bikes the reed cage comes up with the manifold...should i just swap these two around?
petrup93
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

WE HAD A START! hahaha that makes everything feel better!

To start i changed the reed cage and intake manifold, there is no longer air escaping there. Compression test after this only gave me 10
psi boost leaving me with 60. Put some premix primer into the plug hole....nothing. Was getting fed up....thought i heard something about putting 2 teaspoons of oil down there to check for something on the rings? Compression test after this gave me 120. So i put the plug back in and tried to start it, on the third try it started up! I had to keep it at WOT for it start... There was lots of smoke as expected and i am currently working on it in my basement :*: (only space i have as of now) so i had to shut it down quick. But it was on for 30 secs....it was revving very very fast.. i was no longer on the throttle at all, and when it was happening i was releasing the idle screw and that was not having an effect on it.

So i am wondering where do i go from here? The oil in the plug hole tells me...what?

Thank you meatball for all the help so far!
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jakubman1
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by jakubman1 »

Meatball just killed it :thumbwink:
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by jakubman1 »

Check to see if you put the throttle slide on right if it's revving like crazy
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by Meatball »

Meatball wrote:A properly inserted slide should sink all the way down into the carb top out of sight before screwing in the cap. If its getting stuck half way down, its backwards.
Unscrew the cap on the throttle cable and take a peek. The slide should be able to sink DEEEP inside out of sight before the cap is screwed on....if its not going ALL the way down, take it out and rotate it 180deg and re-insert.

The slide has 2 grooves in it. The full length groove should be in the back...the groove with a ramped notch should be in the front where the idle screw is.
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petrup93
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Alrighty, I will go re check that throttle. But the part of me putting oil in the plug hole..is that a permanent fix or should i take apart the cylinder and re lube it all? Comp tests are coming back at 90 btw.
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Meatball
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by Meatball »

petrup93 wrote:putting oil in the plug hole..is that a permanent fix or should i take apart the cylinder and re lube it all? Comp tests are coming back at 90 btw.
If a bike sits for awhile, its a good idea to dribble some oil down the plug hole before attempting to start to avoid a few (hundred?) revolutions without lubrication. Since youve had the bike running, even briefly, proves youre getting fuel (and oil) to the cylinder. No further "lubing" is needed than what your oil pump is providing.

90psi isnt ideal. Ive ran a scoot that was in the 90's but it had 7,500 miles on it and I could tell the motor was tired and ready for a rebuild. You should be up in the 120-130 range with your brand new top end.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
petrup93
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Alright boys i feel very close... please watch the attached video link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56X9-gRDf2I
This is happening with me holding the throttle wide open. Whats the problem here?


I have spark.
Fuel is getting there via petcock and vacuum is established.
That leaves compression..Too much compression? Tests are coming back at 120 PSI.. Honestly very lost here.
petrup93
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Re: 85 Spree not even a flicker of hope

Post by petrup93 »

Is this in anyway a fuel problem??
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