Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Hello all, As title states i have an 85 spree that is very hard to start and wont idle for longer then a minute. When i can get it started i have tried tuning the carb because i thought this was the problem. When adjusting the mix screw to its highest RPM i can achieve this but as soon as i start turning back on the idle screw it will die unless i hit the throttle. All of this process is done in under a minute and afterwards the cylinder is VERY hot as in i cant touch the spark plug without pain. Whenever i do try to start it, it turns over a little better when i give it a quarter throttle.

My compression tests are coming back around 85, but when i pour about 2 tablespoons of oil down the plug hole is jumps up to 120(this is usually when i can get it to start) but after starting it drops back down to 85.

There is a new 50$ cylinder kit on it..i'm assuming this could be the cause of the excess heat? Is it simply stopping because its soft seizing? I haven't opened the cylinder yet..Or is this just a fuel problem?

Thank you for any help in advance!!

Check to see if your piston is on backwards.

Piston is not on backwards just checked, EX is facing the exhaust...Any other ideas im really stumped here.

OK, so after you run the bike the sparkplug will be so hot it will melt your flesh if you touch it. Thats normal for any scooter, car, truck, bike, plane, boat,.....just like the muffler, wear gloves or let it cool off.

However, whats NOT normal is your compression reading of 85. It should be up in the 120's give or take. Check head gasket for leaks. possible leak at the reed gasket, maybe blown crankshaft seal(s), could be losing crankcase pressure from the oil pump area....the possibilities are endless.

Also, you should always set your carb to factory setting as instructed in the service manual when dealing with a stock Spree. Assuming youve already cleaned the carb and replaced the air filter.

Alrighty the spark plug will be that hot on anything huh? Learned something today....But the crankseals are good i checked those along with the reeds everythings all good there replaced with fresh gaskets..Didn't check the head gasket or the one below it..cylinder gasket? But i just tried starting it again after putting some oil down the plug hole.. comp test ran at 120 after this. I got it to start, and it did idle very smokey, is this because i also premixed my gas along with the regular pump ..for a new cylinder this is a good practice for the first tank right? It was idling very erratic i could hear the RPMS dropping then leveling out then dropping again..this happened until it almost died then i gave it gas and the cycle happened again. But i noticed at the mouth of the muffler where it connects to the cylinder there were bubbles forming of what liked like oil..could this be my problem? I'm letting it cool down before I inspect closer.

1. Should i be running a premix to break in a new cylinder?
2. Would a small hole on the muffler be causing the erratic idling?

Haha sorry just saw it yes the carb was thoroughly cleaned and air element had been oiled and installed.

How much premix did you put in the tank? You don't wanna over saturate, that will make you run lean.

Haha oh boy..uhhh, what should it be? I had a gallon and i mixed in 4oz oil..thats a 32:1 right is that good?

No, that's bad!!!!! Way too much oil when the pump is included. If you're breaking in a new piston, you want no more then 80:1 in that tank when using the pump. 32 to 1 plus the pump is giving you at minimum 25 to 1 and worse case, you are getting 16 to 1 (16:1). Way over saturated on oil.I'll bet that plug is super wet, isn't it? 32:1 even without the pump is too much IMHO on a stock sized piston.

eClark speaks words of wisdom...the higher concentration of oil results in dangerously low fuel content. I know these motors are considered "air-cooled" but in fact they are cooled by gasoline. Reducing the amount of fuel will be removing the most important cooling element...resulting in meltdown.

I suggest running straight fuel in the tank for a stock piston while using the pump. Even for break-in. Only if you had a bigger bore then more oil would be needed.

Correct. What is happening here, is your plug is fouling out. The pump is only letting in a little bit of oil, but as you pull back the throttle and RPM increases, more oil is being pumped through, the plug is getting saturated with oil and misfiring, and of course, you are lean on fuel as well, which you need for it's cooling properties. When it comes to air cooled engines, oil does not cool it down, it only lubricates. It is your gas that actually cools the engine. If you don't have the proper amount because the cylinder is being saturated with oil, you will get all the symptoms you have described.

Sprees are crazy engines. Honda designed them to run at specific settings. They did this by putting small intake openings on the block, weaker reeds then alot of other scoots, and a restricted intake. You can't really change the dynamics of what that entire system consists of (like adding more oil or adding a bigger piston), without running into issue.

Tuning a Spree can be done at only 3 locations... The main jet, the final drive gear, and the muffler.

On the main jet, I would go no more then a #68 jet, the final drive gear, I'd recommend no more then a 13T(tooth) gear, and on the muffler, you'd wanna check for restrictions, which are pretty much limited to only the Iowa Edition Sprees where you will find a small washer welded into the inlet of the pipe where it connects to the cylinder.

My recommendation is simply a 2nd of what meatball said.... dump that gas, run straight fuel with no oil (in the tank). Bet she pops right off for ya.

......Thats gotta be what it is...cause that plug was dirty as all get up...I'm gonna try that later in the week thank you!

Found time to work on it today....and nothing, still the smae thing. Very hard to get it to start to fire then when it starts it takes a long time to get it to run and then it dies out in under a minute. Could it be that the oil pump is broke or something and the mix is getting too saturated? IT oils whenever the crankshaft is turning correct? I'm lost for the life of me..

1. I have fuel..no premix now
2. Spark is there
3. Compression is reading out at 115

Maybe the spark timing is off?

Also i forgot to add there is a decent amount of oil residue around the exhaust flange would this be hinting at a bad gasket?

Yes, exhaust leak will make it run bad, you need that back pressure tuned just right. Probably making it hot like that as well.