Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

My engine starts fine the next day after leaving overnight, but after a week it needs to be spun on the starter for about 30 seconds or maybe more. I'm guessing the fuel in the carb evaporates over time and then needs a while to refill, the vacuum petcock is probably there to stop the whole tank from draining. Just wondered if anyone has a work around?

Yes, if you don't want to take anything apart to clean the carb or get the bystarter passages all clean, try the following:

1. Run the starter for 3 seconds to open the fuel petcock and get gasoline to the carb.

2. Tilt the scooter to the left, until the left side of the footboard is almost touching the ground. Run the starter for 3 seconds. Usually the scooter will start or fire. If it fires once, return the scooter to the upright position and it will start normally. If it doesn't start, go to step 3.

3. Tilt the scooter to the right, until the right side of the footboard is almost touching the ground. Run the starter for 3 seconds. Usually the scooter will start or fire. If it fires once, return the scooter to the upright position and start it normally. If it doesn't start, repeat steps 2 and 3.

Note: Tilting your scooter this far to either side might be hard on your battery if it is a traditional lead acid battery if it causes a displacement of the acid, not sure about that as I do it all the time and it doesn't seem to matter.

The carb is clean and I have a gel battery. Interesting idea, I'll give the tilt a try next time. I was wondering if something like a loop or U bend in the fuel pipe would help.

I think the tilting causes gasoline to spill out of the float bowl into the intake pipe. I got the idea from the way an Amal carb works on an old Triumph motorcycle I had. On the side of an Amal carb, there is a button. When you push down on the button, the button forces the float down into the bowl, opening the float valve and causing the bowl to overflow into the intake pipe. I have a couple of Honda scooters with very clean carbs that still won't start right after sitting for a week or so, so I hear you. The tilting technique works every time with them. SA50s seem to start best with the right footboard almost on the ground. Sprees not so specific. Since you have a gel battery, no worries... please report back if it works for you, so I know I am not nuts.

I'm running a clean as a whistle, brand spanking new, Polini carb, and even I run into this issue, though not as problematic. If mine sits for a couple weeks, it takes a couple more turns then usual to start. Afterwards, it pops off less then a second after pushing the starter button. Sitting week to week, it starts up in about 3-4 seconds. What I do if it's been sitting a while, is start it with the kick start to save wear on the starter. After that initial wake from it's deep sleep, I'm good to go all day long with no issue. Oh, and I use a Battery Tender (BTL09A120C) 120CCA battery. Pretty sure that helps alot too. If you use one of those, make sure you have a proper charger for Lithium batteries.

vintagegarage wrote:I think the tilting causes gasoline to spill out of the float bowl into the intake pipe. I got the idea from the way an Amal carb works on an old Triumph motorcycle I had. On the side of an Amal carb, there is a button. When you push down on the button, the button forces the float down into the bowl, opening the float valve and causing the bowl to overflow into the intake pipe. I have a couple of Honda scooters with very clean carbs that still won't start right after sitting for a week or so, so I hear you. The tilting technique works every time with them. SA50s seem to start best with the right footboard almost on the ground. Sprees not so specific. Since you have a gel battery, no worries... please report back if it works for you, so I know I am not nuts.

Amal carbs - days of my youth! We used to call pressing the button on the float chamber 'tickling', the idea was to wait until some petrol spilled out, then you were set ready for a few minutes exercise on the kick start. I have a Cagiva Elefant with a 750 Ducati engine, it has a vacuum fuel pump and takes about 10 mins to start if it runs dry from being left over the winter, next day starting is about 3 seconds.
From doing a bit of reading on the subject of carb evaporation, seems that modern blended fuels are part of the problem. I think a fuel pump is probably overkill and will most likely add problems so I'll stick with a known issue and try out the leaning over trick.

The only work-around I'm aware of is a manual petcock as replacement to vacuum. As you noted, once the carb drains it takes a bit for them to fill back up.

That said, I feel the manual petcock is vastly inferior to vacuum for most applications and wouldn't suggest it.

Greetings:

I once rigged up a mouth-pull "Primer" setup. It may still be floating around in the 2008-2009 posts for Flash 1 or 2... You need some vacuum line, a T Fitting, an end cap, and a 1-way vacuum valve. Autoparts stores stock these, used for vacuum-controlled dampers on Climate Control cars. Run a length of line under the saddle. T-connect it to the existing vacuum line. Strategically place the valve in the existing vac line so when you suck on the under-saddle line you're not just inhaling manifold fumes. Cap the line when not in use to avoid pulling air into your intake stream.

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

I once rigged up a mouth-pull "Primer" setup. It may still be floating around in the 2008-2009 posts for Flash 1 or 2... You need some vacuum line, a T Fitting, an end cap, and a 1-way vacuum valve. Autoparts stores stock these, used for vacuum-controlled dampers on Climate Control cars. Run a length of line under the saddle. T-connect it to the existing vacuum line. Strategically place the valve in the existing vac line so when you suck on the under-saddle line you're not just inhaling manifold fumes. Cap the line when not in use to avoid pulling air into your intake stream.

... and this would be option #2!

Electric vacuum attached to the vacuum line of the petcock, powered by the on position of the bike. Easy to rig, compact, easy to put back the way it was if wanted. Then you don't have to worry about fuel filling the carb when the bike is sitting, and you will have fuel feeding in before you even turn it over.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/263129512685

Seems that if I spin the starter for about 10 seconds then wait another 20-30 seconds before using the starter, my motor starts straight up. Must be something to do with the fuel finding it's way through the carb.