Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

can a bad stator prevent cause no spark?

I have replaced the pickup, CDI, coil and spark plug yet still no spark.

The LED on the aftermarket CDI box blinks when trying to start.

I have run the red/black wire from the CDI direct to the ignition coil to try and bypass any
switch or bad wiring there, and I have run it with the black wire to the CDI box disconnected.

Other than tearing out the entire wire harness and starting from scratch, I have no other ideas of what i can try next. I have looked over all the wiring and can see no issues.

I see you don't specify your model or year....that would be most essential, no?

You've performed all ignition component checks in the appropriate Honda service manual? Thus confirming each component is electrically sound.

Checking integrity of all related system grounds (as shown in the schematics) is called for, too.

I have had the stator coil Honda calls the Alternator Exciter coil go bad on a couple scooters. For problems the bad coils caused - no spark on one scooter. The others ran for a few miles, then no spark until the engine was dead cold - an hour or more.

In my experience, the coil can be bad even if it passes the resistance test. A shorted turn does not always cause a 'too low' reading.

I know nothing about the aftermarket CDI and it's flashing LED. Might be worth verifying the CDI functions on a working scooter before getting a stator.

this is my first scooter of any kind, so I can't test parts on another machine.

where should i look for the exact year? only ID i see is on the gas tank, NQ50(with an E in a circle)

I don't have a meter to read resistance, it's on my list of tools to buy soon.

mousewheels, you are saying that the stator/exciter coil being bad can cause a no spark condition? I was really hoping it couldn't since it is not a cheap part. Are there no aftermarket coils that would work? I see a lot of cheap stators for other bikes, just not for the spree.

I only see one ground, near above the rear wheel. Are there any others i can check?

The starter motor and lights work. Can they both be working and the ignition key still be preventing spark? Or do lights on mean the ignition key has the ignition circuit powered? Just want to rule it out before buying any more parts.

Also, the Green wire from the ignition coil is actually 2 green wires. What is the reason for this? Why would it need more than 1 ground wire?

The grounds are in the drawing member @mousewheels has kindly posted above, represented by the 3 horizontal stacked lines. Note there are 6 ground points shown in the drawing. The wire colors are also noted...the wires must be traced to their grounding points. It is vital they are clean and tight and actually *grounded*.

@benhondacrx...confirmed its a spree then. The factory service manual for years '84-'87

http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=37

Pages 14-8, 14-9 and 14-10 refer to the ignition system. You need to read, study and test those components. A multimeter will be necessary. Not to worry...they are affordable. Harbor Freight, Home Depot, Lowe's, auto parts, shop around.

where should i look for the exact year? only ID i see is on the gas tank, NQ50(with an E in a circle)?

There is a VIN tag on the front right side of the frame tube just in back of the front forks. It will show the model year.

mousewheels, you are saying that the stator/exciter coil being bad can cause a no spark condition? I was really hoping it couldn't since it is not a cheap part. Are there no aftermarket coils that would work? I see a lot of cheap stators for other bikes, just not for the spree.)

Yes, the spark exciter is *the* source of energy to drive the coil. It charges the capacitor inside the CDI to around 300v DC. The timing of spark is controlled by the pulse trigger coil. The pulse trigger coil is a timing signal only, it in itself cannot supply the energy required for a spark.

I do not know of an aftermarket coil which fits the Spree. If you get to needing a stator, try posting in the Wanted/For Sale forum here.

The starter motor and lights work. Can they both be working and the ignition key still be preventing spark? Or do lights on mean the ignition key has the ignition circuit powered? Just want to rule it out before buying any more parts.

You did a good job ruling out the ignition switch and kill switch when you reported disconnecting the Black/white wire to CDI. That disabled the CDI kill function.

Also, the Green wire from the ignition coil is actually 2 green wires. What is the reason for this? Why would it need more than 1 ground wire

I think that was a design choice. The ground is shared with the another circuit and doubling the wires provides a splice point.

awesome guys, thanks for the answers.
I will trace out the grounds when I get a chance, did not realize there are 6!
If all those seem good with the grounds, then I will get a multimeter and check the exciter coil. My gut tells me that may be the issue. I would assume that the aftermarket CDI's LED should be lit all the time, not just when the pulse pickup is firing. But if the exciter is not providing any juice to the CDI, then only the pulse pickup is, thus the fast blinking (and not terribly bight either)

the wire diagram has 6 grounds, but that doesn't mean 6 chassis grounds does it? Because I can only find one which is solid and good. The others join in somewhere on the wire harness right?

you've got to "read between the lines" too....for example...the spark plug body actually supplies the grounding point to engine (via the threads to head). Some of the coil components may also ground at their mounting points.

Using your multi meter will simplify determining ground integrity, in the meantime you've got to trace each wire or component pictured in the schematic and determine each point. The schematic does not lie. Oh, no.

Measuring continuity and voltage, once you become familiar, is invaluable in determining battery, starting, charging, ignition, lighting system faults and integrity.
AC, DC voltage (separate) functions, "buzz box"/continuity, resistance...the meter may even seem like a waste of money...UNTIL you have an electrical issue. Think of shop diagnostic labor... x dollars per hour.