1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

Moderator: Moderator

Zipper
Noob
Noob
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Oconomowoc, WI

1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Zipper »

Hi everyone!

I'm looking for some help. (Anyone in Wisconsin??? ;) Picked up two scooters the other day... a 1984 Honda Aero 80 (NH80) and a 2000 Honda Elite 80.

In an attempt to change the oil on the Aero 80, I referenced the shop manual online and just couldn't for the life of me figure out how exactly to change the oil. It referenced Final Reduction Oil... and I wasn't sure if that's the main oil change section or not.

Anyhow, I just went with that to see what would happen.... and that's when i got stumped:

Step 1:
I removed and checked the "Oil Level Check Bolt"... which didn't make a lot of sense to me. Clearly this is not a dipstick. Or is it? What the heck am I to look at/for? I didn't see anything labeled or have anything to reference to see what I should be looking for on the bolt or inside where the bolt was. Forgive my newbieness here... since I've never really worked on a moped/scooter/motorcycle.

Step 2:
I removed the Drain Bolt. About 2 teaspoons of "oil" fell out. That's it. I looked inside the oil tank and saw there was definitely a good amount of oil in there. What the? Is something clogged? Is that drain bolt referencing something else and is not the main oil drain plug? If that's the case, where the heck is the main oil drain plug?

I just don't understand this at this point. Any help would be appreciated. Once again, please forgive my cluelessness.

I've attached an image which references the drain plug/final reduction drain plug that I pulled. It's the one in the center of where the bucket is.

P.S. Also,... I picked up GN2 Honda oil. If/When I get help with figuring out what to do, does this GN2 need any mixing before putting in, or is it all set and is all I need to do the oil change?

P.P.S. Before posting, I did search around in here to see if I could find my answer instead of just asking away. Unfortunately, I just couldn't find anything with my search... and didn't see an "Oil Change" thread in the FAQ section- which I thought was odd. Maybe it's called something else for these mopeds/scooters?
Attachments
aero80 drain plug1_15percent.jpg
aero80 drain plug1_15percent.jpg (243.41 KiB) Viewed 9029 times
User avatar
motormike
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5487
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:58 pm
Location: Glasgow, KY

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by motormike »

Zipper wrote:Hi everyone!

I'm looking for some help. (Anyone in Wisconsin??? ;) Picked up two scooters the other day... a 1984 Honda Aero 80 (NH80)<<This scooter is a 2 stroke and DOES NOT EVER get an oil change. and a 2000 Honda Elite 80.<<This scooter is a 4 stroke. and IT DOES get regular oil changes.

In an attempt to change the oil on the Aero 80, I referenced the shop manual online and just couldn't for the life of me figure out how exactly to change the oil. <<That's because 2 stroke engines DO NOT have a wet sump engine oil reserve.It referenced Final Reduction Oil...<<THIS oil is in the gearbox, and does require periodic drain and fill... and I wasn't sure if that's the main oil change section or not.

Anyhow, I just went with that to see what would happen.... and that's when i got stumped:

Step 1:
I removed and checked the "Oil Level Check Bolt"... which didn't make a lot of sense to me. Clearly this is not a dipstick. Or is it? What the heck am I to look at/for? I didn't see anything labeled or have anything to reference to see what I should be looking for on the bolt or inside where the bolt was. Forgive my newbieness here... since I've never really worked on a moped/scooter/motorcycle.<<What you did was remove the fill plug for the gearbox

Step 2:
I removed the Drain Bolt. About 2 teaspoons of "oil" fell out. That's it. I looked inside the oil tank and saw there was definitely a good amount of oil in there. What the? Is something clogged? Is that drain bolt referencing something else and is not the main oil drain plug? If that's the case, where the heck is the main oil drain plug? ,, The oil in the "tank" is engine oil that gets mixed into the gasoline automatically by the oil pump. This oil is in NO WAY associated to the oil in the gearbox.

I just don't understand this at this point. <<No, you don't.Any help would be appreciated. <<I'm trying.Once again, please forgive my cluelessness.>>Your fine, but you really need to do some reading about the difference between 2 and 4 stroke engines.

I've attached an image which references the drain plug/final reduction drain plug that I pulled. It's the one in the center of where the bucket is.

P.S. Also,... I picked up GN2 Honda oil. If/When I get help with figuring out what to do, does this GN2 need any mixing before putting in, or is it all set and is all I need to do the oil change?

P.P.S. Before posting, I did search around in here to see if I could find my answer instead of just asking away. Unfortunately, I just couldn't find anything with my search... and didn't see an "Oil Change" thread in the FAQ section- which I thought was odd. Maybe it's called something else for these mopeds/scooters?
<<The reason there is no "oil change" info is because ALL SPREES and ELITE 50's ARE 2 STROKE...and they don't have engine oil.YOUR ELITE 80 DOES-DOES-DOES HAVE ENGINE OIL AND WILL NEED TO BE CHANGED...IT HAS A DRAIN PLUG AND A DIPSTICK. Seriously, good luck... :urban:
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
Zipper
Noob
Noob
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:17 pm
Location: Oconomowoc, WI

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Zipper »

Motormike,

Thanks for all your comments and help.

So if that's the case, and oil changes are not a thing for 2 strokes, how do I undo what I did? Lol

How do I replace the gearbox oil that I drained? And with what type of oil?
User avatar
bonesv
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by bonesv »

Zipper wrote:Motormike,

Thanks for all your comments and help.

So if that's the case, and oil changes are not a thing for 2 strokes, how do I undo what I did? Lol

How do I replace the gearbox oil that I drained? And with what type of oil?
You will need to look it up. Try looking thru this to get some info on 2-stroke operation, etc. I've used a large syringe to re-fill the gearbox on mine. You can get them at drugstore (CVS, Walgreens, Rite-aid)
http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page
Here is the manuals section..... http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ce_Manuals
Honda Elite SR
Honda Elite-Dio ZX

Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861
Golden79
Noob
Noob
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Golden79 »

Nube here as well, I searched the service manual and the wiki, I still cant figure out where the final reduction case fill point is. Any help is appreciated .
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Meatball »

The oil drain/fill bolt is...essentially...a dipstick in itself. The location of it was strategically placed by Honda whereas once the gearcase is filled to the proper level, the oil level will be at the bottom of the bolt hole...this is done on level ground AND while its up on it’s center stand. Squirt oil in the hole with a syringe, pump, ketchup bottle, etc...until oil oozes from the hole. Once the oozing stops...its at the proper level.

To drain the old oil youd need to remove the gearcase cover. You need to have a new gasket on-hand before you attempt this OR some people just use Hondabond or Yamabond.

Unless youre experiencing issues with your gears, I suggest leaving it alone. Gear oil is good for tens of thousands of miles before it breaks down and suffers reduced film strength. If you modify your scooter or swap in aftermarket gears....definitely change it then.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Meatball »

FYI: removing the bolt and simply tipping the scooter over in an attempt to drain the oil will only get about half of it. There are casting ribs and stengthening bars that exist inside the case that oil likes to hide. Dont waste your time.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
User avatar
motormike
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 5487
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:58 pm
Location: Glasgow, KY

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by motormike »

Meatball wrote: Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:45 pm

Unless youre experiencing issues with your gears, I suggest leaving it alone. Gear oil is good for tens of thousands of miles before it breaks down and suffers reduced film strength.
Not entirely true.
30 year old gear oil with very few miles has lost some magic.
Case in point...'84 Aero 125 with only 800 miles...I rode it for a few thousand miles and suffered catastrophic
failure of the idle gear bearing. Those exploded pieces then took out the teeth on everything inside the gear case.
Possibly, new gear oil would have saved me the lengthy repair.
Keep this in mind...the oil recommended is only 10w40 motor oil.
The natural expectation would be 80-90w, but NO...
I will always wonder what might have happened, but will never know.
Err on the side of caution, I say.
RideRed
<Gyro S><MB5><Honda Navi><Helix><Sym Wolf><Yamaha Razz><Honda CH150 Deluxe>
"Live Large - Ride Small"
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Meatball »

Ive always used the “if it aint broke, dont fix it” approach with vintage scooters...I suppose Ive been lucky. With the acquisition of every old scoot I certainly drain the unknown fuel and 2-stroke oil before I run it. Do basics like carb clean, plug, filter, etc...but a fresh gear oil swap isnt on my immediate checklist JUST to get it rolling.

I agree with the notion that fresh oil is certainly a vital component and it should be kept on the “to do” list. As well as new bearings and oil seals to boot. Its just not something I do to every scoot that goes through my garage but hearing about your bad experience, Mike...maybe it should be.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
Golden79
Noob
Noob
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Golden79 »

Thanks for the quick responses! My concern is when I removed the dipstick bolt, a fair amount of oil did leak out, even when I leaned it to the right to the point where gas was leaking out. If i understand correctly, i should use a syringe of sort that will plug the hole, as well as allow me to inject the new oil? I tried using a small syringe and it was no match for the amount exiting the hole. Also, if so much leaked out on level ground, was it too full? Thanks again.
User avatar
Meatball
CB900F
CB900F
Posts: 2320
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:45 am
Location: seattle

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Meatball »

Manual specifies oil capacity as being 3 US oz. The most precise way is to remove the gear cover, remove gears and clean old oil out, blast it with brakleen and compressed air, scrape off old gasket, replace gears/cover with new seal (paper or gasket goop), tip bike on its side and pour in 3oz.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
Golden79
Noob
Noob
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Golden79 »

Thanks again for the help! Feel free to pass on a response here, but i am also struggling with my top end speed, its only hitting 35 mph max, however It seems to runs great other than that. I just replaced the variator weights with the stock 16g, any experimenting with lighter ones? Would that help much anyways? The ones i replaced had multiple flat spots on each, but i didnt notice a lick of difference with the new ones. Belt looks good. I am replacing the plug today with the "extended high speed" plug recommondation, which i doubt will help top speed. Other than an engine rebuild, im not sure what else i can do.
User avatar
bonesv
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by bonesv »

Golden79 wrote: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:01 pm Thanks again for the help! Feel free to pass on a response here, but i am also struggling with my top end speed, its only hitting 35 mph max, however It seems to runs great other than that. I just replaced the variator weights with the stock 16g, any experimenting with lighter ones? Would that help much anyways? The ones i replaced had multiple flat spots on each, but i didnt notice a lick of difference with the new ones. Belt looks good. I am replacing the plug today with the "extended high speed" plug recommondation, which i doubt will help top speed. Other than an engine rebuild, im not sure what else i can do.
So you see no difference after replacing the roller weights? Does the variator look to be in good condition? Do you notice any grooves or see bluish areas from overheating? I would look again at the belt to see if it is an oem Honda part. Also,the belt is checked for "good" by measuring the width, not by appearance. There is a "service limit" on the belt listed in the service manual and if it is near, at, or below that measurement then replace with a new one, and I will suggest an oem Honda part just to keep things where you can tell if it helped or not. Aftermarket parts are not typically identical and can throw your "diagnosing the problem" askew. It will be a metric size and a standard measurement may not be near accurate so try to use metric tool for that. Auto parts store may loan one? They may also loan this next tool you might need........
Compression test. Low compression could be caused by worn rings, cylinder wear/out of round, or leaky gasket. Look up the spec for cylinder compression test.
Too large of a main jet would limit the top end speed also. Have you checked the carburetor jetting? Just throwing these out for you to see if it may help........EDIT: Try this if you have not already. There's a pdf manual near the bottom of the page. http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Honda/ ... ero80.html
Honda Elite SR
Honda Elite-Dio ZX

Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861
Golden79
Noob
Noob
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by Golden79 »

Thanks once again for the advice, i will replace the belt to rule that out, i checked the specs when i replaced the weights and the top side of the belt was at the top end of the spectrum , per the service manual. I don't believe any oem belts are made anymore, the best match i can find is a comet go cart belt. My cousins came over with their newly running aero 80's and theirs blew mine away, so im pretty aggravated with mine right now. They thought my muffler could have an air flow issue due to build up and recommended cooking it off on a bbq grill? Any relavancy to this? They didnt mention compression, it has 4k miles on it where theirs have 5 and 6k, however can one tell if compression is bad based on riding and listening to it run?
User avatar
bonesv
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2127
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:00 pm
Location: Florida

Re: 1984 Aero 80 - oil change...so confused. asking for help

Post by bonesv »

I would first try the cook-the-exhaust-pipe-trick to rule that out as well. As far as the no longer available, use the go cart belt goes, the length may be a couple mm longer and not allowing a full max out on the pulleys. Possible. Did you look into the service manual for your particular year model? Are you using an NGK spark plug? Did you verify main jet size? Do you have an oem air filter oiled up and sealed in the air box? I am surprised the new roller weights didn't change anything. This lead me to think about the belt being too long.........Were the rollers greased? They should not be if they are. Was there a back cover on the variator? Also, I just read another post where the main jet being too large was suspected to be a possible cause of this symptom.
Honda Elite SR
Honda Elite-Dio ZX

Dio ZX Headlight/Disc Brake Mod: http://hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30861
Post Reply