Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

Hey guys this is my first post. Thanks for accepting me to your forum. My problem is I have two elite s scooters. I purchased them as is and donÔÇÖt know too much about them. My yellow one runs great but the red one is hard to start if it sits for a weeks without starting. This is some things IÔÇÖve tried.

Tried a new carburetor it ran worst. The air box has been opened and it has a 80 main jet.
The variator has been de restricted as well as the exhaust.
Put a fuel shut off valve in to turn the fuel off when it sits
Smokes more than the yellow one so I cut the wire tie on the oil pump.

The scooter runs great when it warms up and will start up quickly even the next day just not after a week. It only has 400 miles on it and looks new. The previous owner added a cap of oil into the gas so I drained it and put clean fuel back without oil.

Installed a new spark plug also. Nothing seem to help. DonÔÇÖt know where to look next. I feel like itÔÇÖs a fuel problem but canÔÇÖt put my finger on the problem.

You may have more to discover about this new scooter yet but congratulations and welcome! Browse the forum for info and ask plenty of questions. That being said: It's fairly common for the oil pump to slowly drip oil into the crankcase and cause a hard-to-start condition. If you could start it every couple of days then it will not have a chance to accumulate oil. I can suggest some remedies but I would say try to verify this before making any decisions. First, I would re-install the oem carburetor after a through cleaning and adjust to spec. as per service manual.
To start it, put the key in the ignition and turn to start/run. Then lean the bike over on the exhaust side for 20-30 seconds (about a 45 degree angle) and then try to start in upright position with kickstarter only. Don't give any throttle until it warms up. Keep trying this until it starts. Once started, run it and ride until all the oil is burned off and not smoking.
If you come to the conclusion that the oil pump is the problem you can: Consider replacing the oil pump, or install an oil shut-off valve in-line with some sort of a safety mechanism so you do not forget to open it each time you start it, or block off and delete the oil pump and run premix.

Stock carb cant be beat for your scoot. Disassemble it totally and clean it like your life depends on it. Every hole, port, nook and cranny needs to have carb cleaner shot through it followed by compressed air. Use patience and be very thorough like youre performing brain surgery. Reassemble and set all circuits back to default factory settings as directed in the manual like main jet, mixture screw, needle clip...

The airbox serves much more purpose to these scoots than catching flies. If it doesnt have a properly oiled CLEAN air filter and have the cover tightly fastened and sealed, it just wont run properly. The bike needs the back pressure created by this box.

If the exhaust connection is leaking at all, it will cause the motor to run very rough...possibly causing damage if excessive. The crush gasket should be replaced every time you remove the exhaust. It is designed to crush and form to uneven sufaces...crush it once for positive seal and never twice.

A scooter with only 400mi on it is basically new with many thousands of miles to go before a required rebuild unless its been abused, ran with no oil, left in the elements, etc...your issue is likely an easy repair due to improper(or lack of) maintenance. Oil filling the crankcase is certainly a concern and should be looked at as well. Fresh gas and QUALITY 2-stroke oil (not boat oil) should be used. Welcome to the forum and feel free to use the search function to find useful topics.

Carb cleaning guide: http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... ture_Guide

Service Manual: http://www.hondaspree.net/other/SA50_88-02_service.pdf

New Air Filter: https://m.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Elite-50-a ... SwoudW7v3f

Exhaust gasket: https://m.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Spree-Elit ... SwnHZYTMc-

Good info. Haven't thought about the oil pump leaking into the cylinder but makes since. I'll try pinching the oil hose after i run it next time and let sit for a week. If that's the problem I guess replacing the oil pump is next.

By the way I did go back to the stock carburetor. The eBay one didn't run right at all. Guess you get what you pay for.

Greetings:

F9 is also hard to start after as little as 2 days sitting. Its intake system is completely stock, including the air box. I run premix, so no pump to leak oil. I have concluded that despite that the bowl vents and other openings in the carb allow fuel to evaporate in the 115-degree (South Texas) garage, and after a week it requires as many as 20 Kicks - each of which opens the fuel valve for a second or so - for enough fuel to refill the dry bowl. Once running, it's perfect, and it starts with 1 kick the next day.

Yup, thatÔÇÖs my problem also. My yellow one is a 1999 and has a stock carburetor and air box. It starts anytime very quickly. The red one was all stock but itÔÇÖs been doing this since stock. The air box is open, and the jet is an 80. If I wasnÔÇÖt scared of screwing up the yellow one, I would take the carburetor off the yellow scoot and put on the red one, but IÔÇÖm not going to.

Ok so I pinched the oil line closed while it was sitting for a few days and it still was very hard to start. Smoked bad when it started and had to let idle because if I tried to give it gas it would bog. Acts like it's not getting gas until it warms up then runs great.

With the stock carb installed, do what Bones says.. he knows what he is talking about:

bonesv wrote:Then lean the bike over on the exhaust side for 20-30 seconds (about a 45 degree angle) and then try to start in upright position with kickstarter only.

I do it slightly differently, but bonesv's method is best and safest. I simply lean mine over 45 degrees to the exhaust side, and use the electric starter to start the engine. It always fires within a few seconds while the scooter is leaned over. Make sure you are straddling the scooter when you do this and have both brakes on. Once the engine fires, return the scooter to the upright position and it will continue running just fine. If I don't do the 45 degree trick, the engine will never start no matter how long I run the electric starter. This trick only works on my later SA50s that have starting problems after sitting for a few days. It doesn't seem to work with Sprees or Aeros.

Please give it a try and see if it works for you, then report back if it works or doesn't work.

I have installed a vacuum bulb and a tee in the vacuum line between the carb and peacock. It is located under the seat on my Elite. I can remotely open the peacock prior to starting.

Chipofsc wrote:Yup, thatÔÇÖs my problem also. My yellow one is a 1999 and has a stock carburetor and air box. It starts anytime very quickly. The red one was all stock but itÔÇÖs been doing this since stock. The air box is open, and the jet is an 80. If I wasnÔÇÖt scared of screwing up the yellow one, I would take the carburetor off the yellow scoot and put on the red one, but IÔÇÖm not going to.

What do you mean by this?? ^^^

I have a s model and the air box only had one hole for air. Mine had the second hole opened and the carb has a 80 main jet. The exhaust has been opened also. I have tried putting a fuel shut off in line but that wasnÔÇÖt the problem. I did notice today when the fuel line going to the carb was disconnected fuel does not flow out. I opened the fuel cap thinking it was a vacuum problem but it still didnÔÇÖt flow. Does it pull fuel with vacuum ?

Chipofsc wrote:I have a s model and the air box only had one hole for air. Mine had the second hole opened and the carb has a 80 main jet. The exhaust has been opened also. I have tried putting a fuel shut off in line but that wasnÔÇÖt the problem. I did notice today when the fuel line going to the carb was disconnected fuel does not flow out. I opened the fuel cap thinking it was a vacuum problem but it still didnÔÇÖt flow. Does it pull fuel with vacuum ?

Ok I see what you mean. That's fine with the air box.
The fuel should only flow when there is light suction (vacuum) to open the petcock, so when the motor is turning over, it will pull on the petcocks diaphragm to draw fuel. My first comment was addressing the oil pump issue that's common on older scooters. Just because the odometer reads 400+ miles, does not mean the motor has that mileage. I'm sure you can tell, being able to see the scooter/motors condition, if it's all original and if the speedometer cable is still operational giving you the impression the mileage is correct. That's hard to tell from here. You mentioned lots of smoke coming from the exhaust when it starts up so there is some evidence of excess oil burning. Just be sure you ride it until it gets hot enough to burn it all off and clears the exhaust pipe out. If it continues to burn a lot of oil when you ride it then look into the oil pump replacement. To premix and delete the oil pump is more of a last-ditch effort to avoid spending the $120 bucks and doing the labor to replace it.
Your slow-to-warm-up issue is somewhat of a conundrum as I have an elite that does this and I have another stock one that does not. I suppose the jury is still out on it as I've had no luck to remedy the problem.

Let the scooter sit for five days and it wouldnÔÇÖt start. Did the lean to the muffler side for 20 sec set it back up straight and it fired up. Had to let it warm up without giving any throttle but it started. So how do I fix this issue. My yellow one with start anytime. And run strong even cold.

Ok so it's likely the oil pump leaking but you didn't mention if it was smoking a lot when you just now started it. If it did smoke a lot, then look into getting the oil pump replaced or start it regularly and it shouldn't be any problem.