Honda gyro Leaking Oil

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KillinSpree
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Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by KillinSpree »

Hey guys, I have an 86 Gyro I’ve completely gone through with a new oem oil pump and after bleeding it’s still leaking 2 cycle oil out of the crankcase overflow tube. Any suggestions on what could be wrong? Thanks
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by motormike »

Bummer...saw your ad linked on facebook page.
Don't know what else it could be if not the pump.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by harleyracer59 »

are you talking about the little breather nipple by the pump? if its leaking oil there its either the lowest seal on the pump or the crank seal on that side.
gyros are funny like that. on my 84 I thought that was a vacuum port so I plugged it ended up pressurizing the oil tank while still lubricating the motor. took me for ever to figure it out. scooter was always getting sufficient lubrication while pushing pressure up the 1 way hose(supply to pump.) I put a gauge on it and saw pressure reading, left it un plugged and oil from tank filler bib/ tank overflow hose quit leaking.
while researching my problem I ran across a problem similar to you. issue is the poster and I still don't understand why. it should create a vac leak if crank seal is bad, yet somehow it was opposite.
my only guess is : seal goes bad, motor is ran, oil in bearing location accumulates, motor shut off, oil leaks through bad seal, next time motor is ran, what ever causes the pressure that breather vents, pressurizes the cavity and pushes accumulated oil out breather.. owner said screw it and put a catch can with breather on this port. drains oil every couple weeks/ months. motor shows no issues other than this. runs great, plug isn't lean either.
good luck please post solution if you figure it out. owner was reluctant to tear the motor that far down to replace seal when motor had no performance issues. just marked its place like old Harleys do....
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by KillinSpree »

Ive redone all oil and gas lines, oil pump, air filter, spark plug, cleaned carb, new fluids and I’m still having this issue. I even tried bleeding the system by blowing in oil tank and while bikes running. Both with no luck. The bike runs amazing till it gets more oil than needed then it stalls out. Someone please help
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by vintagegarage »

Make sure that the alignment mark lines up with index mark at full throttle when adjusting the throttle/oil pump cable. It is easy to get the pump to open wider than it should. The manual says not to exceed 1 millimeter too far open. I have never tried running with 3 mm too much open, so I don't know if that causes enough oil to be pumped to shut down the engine, but I rather doubt that it does. If you haven't already done so, please read section 3.5 in the TG50 workshop manual. If you have already read that section and have your index mark lined up with the alignment mark correctly, my next best guess is that the seals in your new oil pump are bad. Bottom line is that all we have is guesses, as we have never seen your problem. I am assuming that you have made at least a 20 mile non-stop run with mostly full throttle to get the engine hot, and all of the oil burned out of the exhaust system and engine block. By the end of your 20 mile run, the engine shouldn't be smoking. Is it, or does the engine stop before you go 20 miles?
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by KillinSpree »

Vintagegarage* I downloaded the ebooks’ manual and adjusted my notches on the pump when wide open throttle. When I pull off the oil pump the hole is filled with oil where it seats into the engine which I know is not right. Hate to have such a beautiful machine not function properly.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by vintagegarage »

I agree.. that is not right. I have never seen that before. Have you made a continuous 20 mile ride yet, or will the engine always die because of too much oil before you get 20 miles? If you have done the 20 mile ride, and you still have oil in the cylinder, then I am out of ideas. Sorry you had to get the ebooks manual.. I should have sent you this link to the free manual:

http://www.motorscooterguide.net/Downlo ... loads.html

Most of the Honda free manuals are linked on that page, including the TG50 one..
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by harleyracer59 »

its either the oil pump shaft seal or the crankshaft seal. only 2 possibilities.
ive seen the crank seal leak and put oil into that cavity yet not really show signs of a vac leak. gyro still ran great and idled fine. if you've replaced the pump and problem persists id say crank seal. it could have been 2 bad pump seals but odds are against that. smoke test or pressure test engine. you could put a vac pump on that vent nipple pull a little vac and let sit a couple hrs and check #. you could also put a pound or 2 of pressure to that nipple and see if theres a pressure drop. put a little smoke it those tests and you should find it quickly
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by KillinSpree »

Well I had it with the oil pump situation so I did an oil block off and am now running pre mix only. Bike runs great. Odds are it’s an internal seal but I’m happy with how she’s running now so I’m not messing with it.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by harleyracer59 »

right on. if it is a crank seal it will still show itself with the pump removed. where's pics of this smoke belching beast?? is it black or red? im going to look at a black and gold gyro project tonight. needs almost all panels head light bucket, muffler, and carb. guy is asking $300.. lol said hed take 200 I am looking to offer 80 might pay as much as 120. but no more. guy told me his cousin got it for free and gave it to him for free too. I would never tell a buyer what I got it for.... some people. lol glad you got yours running better. I love my 84. I hear the 85-86's are even more fun to ride. hope you get lots of trouble free miles out of yours.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by Steven T. »

I'm on my 3rd black & gold gyro. I have 1700 miles on it I got it when it had 300 I've had it for over 10 years. All the sudden is starting to spit 2-stroke oil out of the Breather hole. Has anyone found a fix for this other than mixing the gas and oil together. I don't want to block off my auto Oiler I would like to fix it but I don't want to tear into it either. Does anyone have any current knowledge on what to do please help me!?!?
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by harleyracer59 »

ive torn into a few of these motors. 2 of them down to case halves. the 2 strike oil pump goes into the gear case portion of the engine. not the crankcase part. I still don't understand what builds pressure in the gear case portion other than heat from the clutches and gears meshing.
thr crankcase area is like any other 2 stroke. it is under vacuum. pull the oil fill plug on the right rear section of the axle/gearcase. see if it is overfilled. if it is then you oil pump shaft seal has failed. pull the pump, pull the shaft out pull the seal. should have dimension #s on it. grainger is nation wide. I think they can get the radial shaft oil seal.
it could also be diluted by fuel. these don't have auto petcocks so carb could be leaking gas into crankcase and pushing through crank seal on start up. so if over filled smell the oil that comes out for gas. and inspect the overflow oil for 2 different types. the gearcase uses 30wt oil.
only info I can think to give you. post back with any info or questions you come up with. good luck
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by Steven T. »

Thank you so very much for your knowledge.
I did look at oil that came out of breather tub. It is definitely 2-stroke oil as it is red in color. But now that you mention it it did have a light gas odor. But I thought it might be from exhaust pipe that I pulled looking for where oil was coming from. So I am not positive about those two mixing. I will pull drain plug of coarse after I pull fill plug to see if it has over filled. One more thing I think is interesting what you said about carb leaking. Reason is I had a shop clean carb right before problem started. When I get time to check all these things I will post my findings. Thank you again!!!

P.S. What does it mean, if anything, when I put my hand over exhaust while running and motor continues to run? Trying to figure out why the top end speed Is lacking on my 1997 Honda Elite 80cc? It is a California model with all the extra emissions.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by harleyracer59 »

if you cover exhaust and it still runs, that is the sign of an exhaust leak. that would also drop you top speed.
on the gyro, just make sure you close petcock after use. see if your issue persists. do you live in cali? what city? I stay in whittier.
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Re: Honda gyro Leaking Oil

Post by Steven T. »

It's a California bike but I live in Portland Oregon.
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