86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

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bonesv
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by bonesv »

joseneedshelp wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 10:59 pm Doing that right now, also how much fuel should be coming out?
Light suction should produce a steady flow of fuel many more times the amount of what could be consumed by the motor running at full speed.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

So reeds look good, the piston rings are still there and the piston is pushing in and out when I slowly use the kick starter. Here are some pics of what i've disassembled.
Piston https://gyazo.com/ad2d681954ef091b6002c913528f761c
Piston Tophttps://gyazo.com/b03adeacef3dceb270bf08eb566a5f10
Reeds https://gyazo.com/4aac0135934473af158b4739e8cd4ad5
Cylinder https://gyazo.com/cfe53d562692443e673fb17d2b25e245
Another piston pic https://gyazo.com/0855e2af73df49a728797ec10790f707
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Tell me, is that piston drenched in oil?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

Yeah, if you look at the piston picture you can see how drenched it is. Is this normal?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Not normal...it should be a bit slimey, sure, but dripping in oil indicates theres a pool in the crankcase. Typical 2-stroke mixture is between 32:1 and 50:1. The stock Spree oil pump injects oil somewhere in the middle of this range and its’ exact mixture was never provided by Honda in any literature so it remains unknown. No matter, even if the pump provided the heaviest oil mixture of 32:1 having a dripping wet piston with oil is way too much. Combustion just will..not..happen with that much oil in the crankcase. It needs to be drained out before you’ll get it to fire.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

Thats the ratio the guy said he primixed but he probably added too much oil, how do i go about draining the crank case?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Just went back and read previous posts...75psi compression is an issue....needs to be in the 110 range give or take. So many questions here. Why is it premixed? Does it have a stock bore or aftermarket? Theres no oil tank, is there an oil pump in place? Is the oil feed bung blocked off? Whats the reason to remove the oil injection system?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by bonesv »

I can't understand how it ran for 15 minutes, then stopped running and now the crankcase has excessive oil but no oil pump. So how did it run??? It had to have fouled the spark plug. Too much oil in the premix would not have let it run 15 minutes. Maybe he just bought a broken-motor, scooter in the first place???
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

So there is no oil pump, it has a tank but it is capped off so the oil is premixed into the fuel and the fuel hose delivers both the fuel and oil into the into the carb. The guys reasoning was that spree oil systems tend to fail so he just removes them and puts a 32 to 1 mix in the fuel tank instead and i saw his other two sprees and they were both the same with the oil tank capped off. We then rode the bike to test drive it and it worked great going 32-33 mph. Took it home and then i rode it for about 15 minutes alternating with some family members and it ran good. My little cousin cries to get it on so he gets on my lap we go about ten feet and it just shuts off. After that when i would try to kick start it would crank but it wouldn't turn on. I then did all the things i said i did in the original post and all of the things recommended by you guys and that's how far I am in.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by eclark5483 »

The pump doesn't fail, that's a myth, but the old rubber ring could use replaced. If you are going to run premix , use 40:1 in a standard bore and 32:1 on a BBK. 32:1 on a stock piston will saturate out because of the intake, yes the intake.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

So should i try adding in the pump again? And what do i do about the current piston? Is it still good to use do i just have to drain the crankcase?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by eclark5483 »

Yes, re-install the pump, but change out the O-ring which is probably deteriorated from age. Part number 91301-147-023
. Piston should be fine to use again.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Theres two proper ways to bypass the oil pump. First is to simply remove the pump and install a plug in its place. These plugs are more than just a cap. They look like a long tapered rod specifically made to mimic the oil pump’s toothed drive gear. Their function is to occupy the void of the removed pump rod. Leaving a void with a cheap cap lowers crankcase pressure and creates runabilty issues. The Second method is to remove pump, grind the teeth off the oil pump’s drive shaft and reinstall it. This way, there is no empty crankcase void and the pump isnt spinning dry.

What I would do is pull out the oil pump and see WHAT the previous owner did. He either grinded the teeth off the pump rod (correct), removed the rod altogether (creates void and lowers case pressure), or did nothing but delete the oil lines off and cap them off....if he did the last method (total hack) its possible that spinning the pump DRY caused it to sieze and this would explain your running issue. IF the toothed oil pump rod is present, try spinning it with your fingers and see if it will spin.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

I will pull it out getting home. I just messaged the guy and he said all he did was cut off the hoses though so i think the rod will still be in there
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Sounds like you have options.

1. Remove pump and install one of these: https://scooterswapshop.com/collections ... g-oil-plug

2. Grind the teeth off the drive gear of the pump and reinstall

3. Fully test the pump for proper functionality, replace oil lines, install oil tank, PROPERLY prime the oil pump as stated in the Service Manual (critical procedure as to not run it without oil with air in the lines), drain mix fuel from gas tank and replace with fresh unmix...basically undo what the previous guy did.

For me, I would take the easiest/fastest option (2) and grind the teeth. Just be SURE the pump o-ring is good and all ports are capped off with zero chance of air leaks.
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