86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

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joseneedshelp
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

So im gonna sum up all thats went on in this post just so it will be easier to identify the problem.
It was running fine for about 30 minutes after me buying it and then when i let my cousin ride it the bike just died and it would crank but not turn on.
To start off i did a little research and i tested the spark plug and got a new battery. I then cleaned the carb a total of 3 times. At this time the bike would turn on for about 3 seconds with starter fluid before turning off. The guy before me was running premix but he just removed the hose and didnt grind the teeth off the oil pump. I took it out and the teeth had little chips and dents on some of them. I have now grinded the teeth and put it back in. Did a compression test and got back a result of 75 so i took apart the top end. The rings were fine and so was the cylinder. The reeds were fine but i still replaced them with carbon fiber ones and replaced the gaskets for that and the base gaskets. I got a new air filter on it because before it was running with no filter, in fact, the hose was completely off of the carb. So after the new gaskets i aslo got a new spark plug and put everything back together with a new bistarter in the carb. Drained the fuel because he was premixing 32:1 and filled it up with 40:1. the fuel filter was also dirty so i installed a new one. It wouldnt start once everything was disasembled so i added some starter fluid to see if it would get it going that way and it now wont even start with the fluid.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

If you got a result of 75 on compression test, it's not certain that the rings are "fine". Another place for compression loss occurs if the crank end-seals are leaking. Look for oil trickles below the seal sockets, at both ends of the crank.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by eclark5483 »

Yeah, you need AT minimum 100 on the compression for it to run. 75 is way too low.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

How can i access the crank seals? If they are inside of the engine do i need a new head gasket to replace or is that not necessary ?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

Okay I took off the cover and it was basically black in there. It looks like there’s a bunch of oil and some parts are still a bit damp. Does this mean my seals are bad?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Black gunk is typical for the belt area. Nature of the beast with belt and clutch debris...but it should not be wet at all. Pull your vari and clutch off and try to find the source. Can really only be bad crank seal or the seal at rear trans gears. My money is on crank.

http://49ccscoot.proboards.com/thread/1 ... -oil-seals

Whatever you use to pop the seal out, be SURE not to damage/scratch the smooth round part of the crankshaft where the seal sits. If its scatched, it will NEVER seal and you’ll need a new crank.
Last edited by Meatball on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by bonesv »

joseneedshelp wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:03 pm Okay I took off the cover and it was basically black in there. It looks like there’s a bunch of oil and some parts are still a bit damp. Does this mean my seals are bad?
Oil in the belt cavity suggests the seal is leaking. Just check to be sure the crank is not moving around which would suggest the main bearings are bad and causing the leaking seal. Also check the other crankshaft seal to be sure. For that you have to pull the mag flywheel off to check it and if it's bad, you need to remove the stator also. Look up the spec for installing the seals in the service manual http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?title=Main_Page
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by PATRIOT »

I feel your pain and went thru the same trouble with my Spree for several years. Sometimes it would just bog down and quit in the middle of a ride as well. Turned out to be the auto-choke . . . the black seal was missing from the pintle. Purchased this new one . . . problem solved. Best $3.89 I ever spent (at the time) It arrived in 11 days. This little scoot is very sensitive to air leaks.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

Just installed a new one with a new ring! Thanks for the input though.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uLMK9HGnbPM

As explained, not only will a leaky crank seal force fuel/oil out...it will also draw unregulated air IN and cause bog down.

As Bones suggested, once the front pulley and belt is removed, grab the crank with your hand and force in all directions looking for any play. Up, down, in, out, all possible directions. If theres ANY play at all (even the slightest) your crank bearings are bad. The crank should be completely solid with no slop whatsoever.

If its nice and solid, clean the greasy area around the seal so good that you can eat off it. Then reassemble and run it. Then go look again and any leak should be obvious.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

The crank didn’t budge but there still looks to be leak. The seals get here tomorrow and I’ll update you guys on what happens. Also should I replace the gasket? It’s black and some pieces came off when pulling it apart
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by Meatball »

Which gasket? If youre talking about the belt cover gasket then its up for discussion. If you ride in the rain then that gasket is 100% needed. If you only ride on sunny days (like me) I dont see a need for it. SOME members have reported the belt cover gasket as being an important “spacer” to keep the kickstart assembly at the proper distance and vital for smooth operation. I personally have ran without the gasket and never had a single kickstart issue related to spacing. Maybe Im just lucky?
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by bonesv »

The cover gasket would be needed if you space the variator boss out (or use a zx boss) and run a wider belt. Rear cover needs the rubber gasket to be moisture resistant.
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by joseneedshelp »

Okay I’ll just put a new a new one, do you know if noiseguy sells any of those? Also bones how would I know it’s bad and would it need a new stator or it to just be cleaned out
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Re: 86 Honda Spree won't start I've tried everything

Post by bonesv »

joseneedshelp wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:56 am Okay I’ll just put a new a new one, do you know if noiseguy sells any of those? Also bones how would I know it’s bad and would it need a new stator or it to just be cleaned out
Well, if you see any oil it would probably be from a leaky seal. I don't know where else it could come from on that side. You would not need to replace the stator but be very careful not to damage any of the windings by threading a bolt too far into the flywheel and turning it. Ask me how I know that. You should use an impact wrench to loosen the nut (counter-clockwise) then you need a flywheel removal tool to break the flywheel from the crankshaft. Inspect for oil behind the flywheel and also inspect all around the cylinder base for signs of oil leaking. Only if your seal needs to be replaced would you consider to remove the stator unless you think the seal could be removed without?
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