1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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Brivander
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1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

I just picked up another scooter (apparently I have a problem....) 1987 Elite SE50P. I would like to get my hands on the non-restricted variator face plate gear ratio and the muffler from the "S/R" model. I've done the searching and it seems like that would do it.


http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5?t ... erformance -- anyone have a lead on these anymore?
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
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Meatball
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Meatball »

Heres the good vari set-up: https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-87-Honda-Ae ... SwFA5bSeaL

Unrestricted SE50 exhausts can also be found on Ebay but be ready to pay dearly. Theyre scarce.

The 10:1 gears?....good luck, my man!
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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nateberrier
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by nateberrier »

I dont know 100% but you should be able to use a stock honda aero exhaust, which i should have laying around. Scootertuning.ca should have an exhaust for this bike, its technigas and about 100 bucks.

I also have stock aero variators if you dont want to spend on the KELI, but I can 200% recommend those. It really woke my aeros up.
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank
Brivander
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

I purchased the Technigas pipe and the Keli speed pulley/variator kit last night, so it looks like I am on the right track. I got to do some runs last night with it completely stock, and it runs as expected in the 29-30 range on the flats. Pulls very good off the line, guess I got used to my spree which it is a dog until 12mph with my big * on it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-87-Honda-Ae ... SwFA5bSeaL

I also have the Honda jet kit, so I will up-jet to the "S" model 85 to start.

That "S" model gear ratio is cray elusive, eh? Looks like the info here conflicts with driveshaft tooth count online at OEM stores. http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5/T ... ion_Ratios

Keep in mind I am 6'3" 225lbs so I may just try the stock ratio (11.097) to start. It also list an aftermarket ratio for the DDM, I assume those won't work? I've searched all over this site and the web with no luck, anything that will get me close to the 10.2 "S" ratio? If not, I guess I am stuck for now. The engine runs so well I don't want to pull it apart....yet. If I can get in the 40mph range I'd be ok. With the stock ratio will the rpm be the limiting factor? Does this thing have a CDI to fix that if so?

nateberrier -- do you think the technigas is as good as the stock Aero exhaust, and do you know if I will need to derestict the maniold side of the pipe? If you have the Aero pipe laying around I'd also be interested since I may have a line on another 87 SE50.

This is a great site, thanks for the help. Sorry for so many questions!!!
Last edited by Brivander on Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
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Meatball
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Meatball »

The difference of the 11’s and 10’s is minuscule. You wont see anything but a 2-3mph gain. Certainly not worth the price of admission if you can find them. Theres rumblings about swapping in AF16 gears, then every ratio imaginable is available. This required finding a COMPLETE gear set from an AF16 including the trans cover...easier said than done. Also, the stock AF16 ratio is 12:1 so youd have to buy the gear set THEN buy aftermarket gears for that...how bad do you want it?. ;)

The CDI has no RPM limiter. All that will hold you back from revving is such things like pipe, intake, carb, airbox, etc...and of course the stock bore only has enough “umph” to push so much with the vari in top gear. Much like riding a 10-speed bicycle in top gear. Leg power cant spin the cranks very fast even though youre stand-up pedaling.

With the parts you have coming, you should see 40-ish.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.
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nateberrier
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by nateberrier »

Brivander wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 8:16 am I purchased the Technigas pipe and the Keli speed pulley/variator kit last night, so it looks like I am on the right track. I got to do some runs last night with it completely stock, and it runs as expected in the 29-31 range on the flats. Pulls very good off the line, guess I got used to my spree which it is a dog until 12mph with my big * on it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-87-Honda-Ae ... SwFA5bSeaL

I also have the Honda jet kit, so I will up-jet to the "S" model 85 to start.

That "S" model gear ratio is cray elusive, eh? Looks like the info here conflicts with driveshaft tooth count online at OEM stores. http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5/T ... ion_Ratios

Keep in mind I am 6'3" 225lbs so I may just try the stock ratio (11.097) to start. It also list an aftermarket ratio for the DDM, I assume those won't work? I've searched all over this site and the web with no luck, anything that will get me close to the 10.2 "S" ratio? If not, I guess I am stuck for now. The engine runs so well I don't want to pull it apart....yet. If I can get in the 40mph range I'd be ok. With the stock ratio will the rpm be the limiting factor? Does this thing have a CDI to fix that if so?

nateberrier -- do you think the technigas is as good as the stock Aero exhaust, and do you know if I will need to derestict the maniold side of the pipe? If you have the Aero pipe laying around I'd also be interested since I may have a line on another 87 SE50.

This is a great site, thanks for the help. Sorry for so many questions!!!
I should think the technigas pipe would be a mild upgrade from a stock aero pipe. Stock Aero pipes are pretty restrictive as well and keep the power band down pretty low. Ive not run that pipe but obviously there are much more aggressive ones in existence, though right now thats the only one Im aware of thats in stock, shy of ordering from europe for a leovince. Treatland.tv has the mlm pipe for se50 but I think I bought the last one :P

If you put the pipe on the bike you need to jet up higher than stock.

SSS has a stage6 cdi for these bikes. I dont know how much itll benefit you, but supposed to advance timing a bit, give a little more pep, and make starting easier.

Once my MLM pipe is in, I can box up the stock pipe
I should think an exhaust and vari will get you over 40mph just fine
1986 Aero White -- Stock With Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af05 Malossi BBK + Keli Var
1985 Aero Red -- Af16 Corsa / Fabrizi Pipe / Polini 24 PWK / Athena Stuffer Crank
Brivander
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Cool, that's what I am hoping for, not a speed freak. I've acquired a 92' Jog, 85' Spree and this 87' Elite over the last couple weeks. I'm rebuilding the Spree as we speak, whoever had it was a moron.

Just waiting for the stock OEM 86' cylinder to arrive for the Spree (even though it's an 85) and this will be for my daughter, will use the stock 85' head with it and the domed piston from 86' 87' (bought from TAZ per reading results from his stuff on this site). I got it so cheap I bought the MLM pipe for it and speed pulley/new belt. She is under 100 lbs so the bottom end will not matter as much, and being an 85' it is geared lower to begin with 12T vs 86'-87' 13T, I have the 86'-87' 13T driveshaft if the pulley is too much. The wife will ride the Elite (~130lbs) and I will ride the Jog (~225lbs). The Jog should be fine for now, but the previous owner already installed a Technigas pipe which I am in the process of determining if it is restricted. Variator will come later if I "need" more.

I have the honda jet kit, I will start with the "S" model 85 jet and go from there on the Elite. Also, I will up-jet the spree 1-2 sizes. because of the pipe per Scooter swap shop.

We have a TON of 35mph speed zones around my house, the Elite (once finished) and Jog should be totally fine, just hoping the spree will respond and get into the mid-to-upper 30's with the kid on it. I'm sure that thing will be a complete DOG with someone my size on it.
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Honda SE50P

Step one completed — Up to ~35-36mph with the Technigas pipe, tough to tell exactly with the wind tonight, so I went both ways on a flat road and averaged the GPS speeds. Now onto the variator/speed pulley when time allows, more to follow. Pretty happy with the results so far. I’ll check back in when more is complete.

My Spree results are in another thread here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36599&p=309839#p309839
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Ok, so I'm getting ready to install the Keli variator and speed pulley on the Elite. While I am in there I was thinking about changing the clutch springs. I was going to start with the 1000 or 1500 Polini springs. Do I need to change the contra or anything else while I am in there?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-87-Honda-Ae ... 2749.l2649
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
kosmo
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by kosmo »

maybe a new contra, do you know how to get the clutch apart to get to the contra? i use a bench vice to hold the nut and then a large oil filter remover to turn the clutch by the clutch pads.
there are 3 contra springs i usually see, they call tem 1000,1500 and 2000. maybe 1000 for some extra tension from the lighter variator.
when i first got a variator, i dont know if my spring was worn out but it worked fine on the stock variator. when i'd go down the road, after going from full speed, as i would slow down then try to speed up again, i would hit the gas and barely have any accelereation, torque. id have to almost stop and then you could hear the cvt shifting back the small pulley big pully on the drive and driven.. pulley. then i could hit the gas and it would give me torque and i could go up the hill. so later i changed to a 1000 spring and it was better.
Brivander
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Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Yeah, I know how to get to it. I am going to try it stock, then proceed after that, thanks for sharing your experience. If mine does the same I will know which direction to go!
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
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Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Step 2 completed:

Kelli pulley and variatiator installed, seeing just over 42mph gps!!! Ima at least right where the Elite S is, I did get over 47 downhill crossing the freeway :)
Last edited by Brivander on Sun Sep 29, 2019 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
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Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Mods are: Keli variator and speed pulley with 6, 7g weights, 84 main jet, and Technigas pipe. Pretty happy with that.

Next up, 1000 or 1500 clutch springs and contra A.S. required.
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
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Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Time to finish the second Spree and get the Jog together!
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
Brivander
Spree
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Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Re: 1987 Honda Elite SE50 Derestricting

Post by Brivander »

Meatball wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:47 pm Heres the good vari set-up: https://www.ebay.com/itm/85-87-Honda-Ae ... SwFA5bSeaL

Unrestricted SE50 exhausts can also be found on Ebay but be ready to pay dearly. Theyre scarce.

The 10:1 gears?....good luck, my man!
I’ve completed the miracle, I found the 13T driveshaft from an Elite S!
1985 Black/Purple Spree-39 GPS
1985 Red/White Spree-40 GPS
1987 Black/Purple Elite-44 GPS
1985 Red/Black Aero-42 GPS
1992 Red/Gray Jog- 56 GPS
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