Childhood Spree rebuild

Trying to get your Spree/Elite to run, or run better? Post your questions here.

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Campfire
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Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

I inherited the Spree I used to run around on when I was in grade school. So far I’ve been able to get the engine to run after I rebuilt the carb and went through the fuel system. The major issue is it’s stuck at full throttle. I ordered a new throttle cable assembly. I made the mistake of reassembling the throttle cable/carb incorrectly. I didn’t realize the slot had to face a certain way. It slides easily in and out of the carb and I don’t see and physical damage to the slide. Is this likely an issue?

I ordered a new air filter as there isn’t one there now. New tires and tubes are next if I can get control of the throttle. Should be a fun scooter for my grade schooler when she gets a bit older. Glad I found this site!
Last edited by Campfire on Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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motormike
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by motormike »

Dude ! !....that throttle slide is grooved down the side, and that long groove corresponds to a small "nub" inside the slide chamber.
They must align for proper function...maybe you're missing that nub, or hopefully you just have it clocked at the wrong position.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

I’m pretty sure it’s oriented correctly now as before it didn’t slide flush. Now it does. I used this link for the cleaning which shows the orientation. I’m guessing the cable is simply binding as there is no “springiness” to the throttle.

http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5/C ... ture_Guide
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by bonesv »

Campfire wrote: Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:56 pm I’m pretty sure it’s oriented correctly now as before it didn’t slide flush. Now it does. I used this link for the cleaning which shows the orientation. I’m guessing the cable is simply binding as there is no “springiness” to the throttle.

http://hondaspree.net/wiki/index.php5/C ... ture_Guide
There is a spring that goes between the cap and the slide. That is where the "springiness" comes from. If a spring is in place already, then it must be an incorrect spring. That's all I can tell you at this point.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

The throttle grip twists fine. It’s like the cable is simply not moving. In my younger years, I was a bicycle mechanic. I’m pretty confident that the cable is binding in the housing (Occam's Razor). It seems highly unlikely that the spring would be incorrect. This thing hasn’t been touched since I stopped using it over 20 years ago and it was fine back then. I’m going to simply cut the entire cable and housing and see if I can manually actuate the “throttle” with a pliers on the exposed shortened cable.

The spring rate of that spring seems fine as it’s difficult to get the throttle cable in the slot of the slider.

I appreciate any input, though, as this is my first foray into anything with a carb. This site is a goldmine of knowledge.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by motormike »

That's some radical action there...cutting the cable.
Hope you got a real good plan.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Meatball »

Unscrew the carb cap and pull the barrel out. See if the throttle will spring back when twisted while its out of the carb. This will tell you if theres any barrel/needle binding.

If throttle does not spring back while barrel is out of the carb, remove barrel/spring assembly from throttle cable end and see if cable moves freely when the grip is twisted. If the throttle has any resistance at this point, a damaged cable is likely. This could be a kink in the line, a breach in the outer jacket causing moisture to rust the inner cable or the internal cable lube has become encrusted over the years from sitting. Whatever the case, a cable replacement must be made. Look for a good used OEM cable on Ebay or post a “wanted” ad here on the boards. New OEM cables are no longer available.


Cable routing: the throttle cable has to be routed in such a way that it has no sharp bends. Is it possible that when you rebuilt the carb, you reinstalled the assembly with the cable routed differently than its original path?

The most definitive diagnosis (and most invasive) is to remove the cable from your scooter completely. This will pinpoint the issue and clearly show you if the issue lies in the carb/barrel area, the throttle/grip area or the cable itself.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

Mike,

since I ordered a new cable off of eBay for $10, I figured I could get creative/destructive. The actual cable is double ended unlike bicycle cable so I don’t see a way to lubricants the cable inside of the cable housing.



Meat,

I didn’t physically alter the cable housing or move it when I had the carb off. I just unscrewed it’s from the carb. Even before I unscrewed it, the throttle wouldn’t spring back to idle like the throttle on my Metropolitan.

How critical is it to use an OEM cable vs a new generic cable from a cycle shop?

When I screwed the throttle cable back onto the carb without the slider being in the correct position, is that a death sentence for that piece? The needle seems a bit loose inside the barrel but it doesn’t look bent.

Thanks guys.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Meatball »

Well, the OEM cable fits the best. Any aftermarket cables might get close but not perfect. Most (in my experience) wont fit at all even if the seller says it will.

Incorrect install isnt a death sentence unless youve jammed in it there with so much force it caused damage somehow. It should slide in easily and be fully seated into the cavity. You can remove the airbox and SEE the barrel position inside the carb hole. With zero throttle, the barrel should sit all the way down to block off any air from entering at idle...except for a small crescent shaped cutout in the barrel end.

The needle normally sits in the barrel loosely until the spring is compressed against the “W” clip on the needle c-clip...this pressure holds the needle still.

Take a look at the cable routing as it comes off the grip and into the headlight plastic. Theres a notch in the plastic for the cable to enter and must be routed correctly there. I recall I once made the mistake of incorrect routing in this area and it caused binding.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

I lubed that throttle cable up like a $2 whor.. The action is much better. I can physically see the cable housing flexing close to where the carb is. The throttle feels like new up until I screw the cable to the carb. Then it binds up.

With an oiled air filter in place, it runs better. I resecured that other needle type thing (oil injector...?) as it wasn’t seated tightly.

When the throttle slide chamfer slot is pointed towards the air box, the throttle slide doesn’t sit flush but when I screw the cable cap tight, I feel it tighten and then loosen again. Upon disassembly, the throttle slide is now flush. It is still oriented with the chamfer pointed at the air box and the throttle slide slot 90 degrees off aligned with the key.

When manually pushing and pulling on the carb end of the throttle cable, the throttle hand grip moves freely. I have the idle mixture screw (flathead) turned out 1 7/8 turns from full tight. The idle screw (Phillips head top screw) has no effect.

I’m still stuck at wide open throttle though.

When I disassemble the cable, the throttle slide is a bit stuck and doesn’t slide freely until I pull it out and then it’s fine. There isn’t any apparent damage. Am I screwing the throttle cap on too hard? There is no difference if I snug up the throttle cable cap, tighten it up well, or simply leave it completely unscrewed and loose. Full throttle is all I get.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

I’m confident the throttle slide is oriented correctly because there is clearly a slot for the high idle to screw into on the slide.

Is the needle in the slide supposed to be seated fully or is supposed to have play? I’m assuming seated but I dropped the slide into the throttle slide body and it fell allll the way down. I ended up pulling the clip out of the slide throwing to get the stuck slide back out.

The slide does not smoothly go into the throttle body when oriented correctly. Is the slider supposed to be loose and free or snug? I’m assuming not snug due to it being called a slider. Sliders “slide”, right?
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

Meatball, thanks for the tip on the throttle cable routing inside the grip. There’s a stop tab that must be oriented correctly when reinstalling the grip on the handle bar and inside the two halves of the handle at clamp. Once I lubed the cable and reassembled the grip correctly, the throttle cable was a solid 90% with enough spring to go back to idle by itself.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Meatball »

If youre still having a “wide open” condition. I suggest removing the airbox and taking look into the carb at the barrel. It will be obvious if it isnt fully seated. The idle screw’s job (you know this) is to raise/lower the barrel to dial in the desired idle rpm. This is accomplished by the idle screw tip forcing itself against a ramped notch in the barrel. **Be sure the “ramped notch” is aligned with the idle screw when installing** Ive had the mistake (after a carb clean) of having the screw TOO far screwed in as to not allow the barrel to fully seat....Ive also acquired a scoot which had a “replacement” idle screw which was much too long and resulting in the same effect.

So, if you look at the barrel position from the airbox side and youve determined that it is fully seated and operating smoothly when you twist the grip, your issue lies elsewhere. This means air is entering from someplace else besides the venturi. When you have an airleak somewhere, the idle screw does nothing and idle rpm’s scream to the moon.

Airleaks can be anywhere. From a carb cap gasket to bowl gasket, intake gaskets...all the way to head gasket, crank seals or engine case. Leaking fluid isnt always an clear indicator as some leaks only draw in air and never leak out. Those pesky leaks can drive one crazy to locate.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Campfire »

As this is my first carburetor project, let’s not assume too much knowledge on my part. 😉

Is the slide supposed to “slide freely” in the throttle body? It seems like the slide engaging the throttle key prevents the slide from moving freely. Is this normal? How far into the throttle body is the slide supposed to sit? Flush with the opening or balls deep?

Appreciate the help. This thing is so close to being road ready again.

I’ll reinstall the carb and pull the air box and check the barrel position. I did not know about air leaks being a possible issue.
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Re: Childhood Spree rebuild

Post by Meatball »

Balls deep. Once its in correctly, it slides in like butter.
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