1985 Spree - Carb not pulling vacuum

[Rideslikenacho]

Couldn’t get the Spree to crank, acts like a no fuel issue. Petcock has been replaced and confirmed working via negative pressure test.

Removed the fuel line and cranked over with airbox on, confirmed no gas coming to carb. Removed airbox from side of carb and held my hand over the intake to restrict air completely, cranked over and fuel now getting to carb. Bike started up and put airbox back on.

Given all the recent carb cleaning, and starter/bendix issues I’ve fixed etc is this normal behavior? Almost like the bystarter isn’t allowing enough fuel on startup.

Also, what is correct voltage for the battery to show for startup? Pretty sure this one is no good.

[Rideslikenacho]

The carburetor insulator is missing per diagram however the carb itself has an oring and seats tightly against the intake and also the airbox.

[Rideslikenacho]

Still having starting issues with this Spree. Pulled the airbox lid off and noticed where someone had drilled four dime sized holes in it then taped over them. I filled those with plastic filler this afternoon. I still have to cover the carb with my hand to prime it, then after that it will run and idle with the airbox on. Beginning to think its either the bystarter not working correctly and allowing more fuel when open, or possibly a small air leak thats not allowing enough negative pressure to pull a vacuum on cold starts. Any ideas?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

If you can get it to run, spray brake or carb cleaner on all the junctions; airbox lid, airbox rubber to airbox and to carb, carb to manifold, and manifold to crankcase. If the idle speed changes, you have your leak. If idle speed stays constant, consider checking both crank seals for Unsightly Drippage.

[Rideslikenacho]

Greetings:

If you can get it to run, spray brake or carb cleaner on all the junctions; airbox lid, airbox rubber to airbox and to carb, carb to manifold, and manifold to crankcase. If the idle speed changes, you have your leak. If idle speed stays constant, consider checking both crank seals for Unsightly Drippage.

Thanks yeah that’s the next thing on my list. The one piece missing is the carb intake spacer and davespree is supposed to ship one next week. I’ll try the carb cleaner on everything. I’m thinking it could be the gasket on the reed area too.

Replaced both crank seals two weeks ago so those should be good.

[Rideslikenacho]

Greetings:

If you can get it to run, spray brake or carb cleaner on all the junctions; airbox lid, airbox rubber to airbox and to carb, carb to manifold, and manifold to crankcase. If the idle speed changes, you have your leak. If idle speed stays constant, consider checking both crank seals for Unsightly Drippage.

Cranked it up and used carb cleaner to check for leaks. Did not find anything glaring that shut it down completely. Was some ‘audible’ drop in rpms when sprayed around the airbox lid. Added a video below if someone could comment here and lmk if this is a true airleak since its pretty minor.

https://youtube.com/shorts/o1pBty3lMTY?feature=share

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

"Minor" or not, it needs to be addressed.

[Rideslikenacho]

Greetings:

"Minor" or not, it needs to be addressed.

I’ll have to see if I can get oring gasket by the foot and replace it. Seems like it could have seeped in through where the screw is holding it on as well. Aside from that not sure what else can be done for the lid. Someone prior had drilled holes in it but those I have filled with plastic epoxy.

[Rideslikenacho]

I’m kinda running out of ideas on this Spree.

Back to having a no start condition again. Any suggestions?

Spark is good
Battery is good 13.4 volts and brand new, not weak
Starter engages the bendix appropriately
Engine turns over quick with no hesitation
Carb is same as one that I was able to get it running with several times.
Petcock is new and confirmed working with negative pressure
- cranking with hand over carb air intake will bring fuel
- cranking without hand over will not**
- cranked with hand over air intake before and it started, now it won’t at all**
- cranking with hand over air intake and opening float bowl drain, gas will flow out
Crank seals have both been replaced and intact
New reed gaskets
New oring gasket in airbox lid

What I have tried again with no success
- cranking over with hand over air intake to get fuel to carb
- cranking over without hand over air intake
- gas/oil mix under plug, (not even a sputter or try to fire)
- small amount of starter fluid in air intake side (no sputter or try to fire)

Carb
- swapped the cheap chinese carb with cleaned and airblown oem keihin carb (still same no start)
- bystarter round brass piece around the needle was stuck inside the aftermarket chinese carb
- unconfirmed working or not bystarter from old oem carb**
- air mixture screw backed out 1 7/8 to 2 turns
- idle screw out 2 turns from seated


I’ve ordered a new aftermarket carb hoping the bystarter and carb itself will work better.

Questions:
1. When cranking the spree should the throttle be pegged open to start it when cold?
2. If the carb is bad or bystarter would this cause a no vacuum condition and not pull fuel from the petcock?
3. If I have fuel at the carb, holding my hand over the air intake, and spark at the plug, what else can cause it not to fire up?

Hopefully someone can help with this one.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Have a look at the reeds. You will need new gaskets.

[Rideslikenacho]

Greetings:

Have a look at the reeds. You will need new gaskets.

Yeah they felt firm and closed back when I checked em, put new reed gaskets on today.

[Rideslikenacho]

Greetings:

Have a look at the reeds. You will need new gaskets.

Yeah they felt firm and closed back when I checked em, put new reed gaskets on today.

What else should I be checking?

I pulled the plug and also oil pump to make sure the crankcase wasn’t flooded from repeated attempts at starting and it seemed fine. Definitely not like when the original petcock was broke and flooded it causing the hydrolock scenario.

Ordered a new clone carb and plugs. This thing has run before but I was jumping it off the truck due to a bad battery. I tried that again and couldn’t get it to fire for whatever reason.

[Rideslikenacho]

Quick update:

Replaced the carb, put zip ties on all the lines and it cranked right up.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Glad you got it running! I'd suggest you put your stock carb and all its parts in a can of Berryman's for a few months. It'll come out clean, and ready to replace the Clone carb when it fouls up...

[Rideslikenacho]

Well so it’s still acting a little strange..

For example, I cranked it right up this afternoon on first try. Was going to let it just idle for awhile while I did dishes. All the sudden it died which I presume to be when the auto choke warmed up and closed off the excess fuel. Right after, I was unable to start it. Did not seem to be getting enough gas again. Pulled the vacuum line, put negative pressure to it until gas was flowing to carb and it fired right up. I stayed with it for about ten minutes, between like 5-6 minutes it wanted to die out so I gave it throttle to keep it going then it idled fine. Went and did the dishes for like 15 minutes and came back out and still idling good.

Just not sure why it wouldn’t just fire back up after dying unless maybe the auto choke was still warm and shutting off the extra fuel. Not sure if the auto choke being open creates additional vacuum… meaning if I waited like ten minutes for it to retract would it pull fuel to the carb.