Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

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mousewheels
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Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

One issue when converting our scooters to LED turn signals, is the OEM flasher does not flash with the low current load of LEDs.

I converted about 10 yrs ago, and used an automotive style low load flasher, as it was available and lower cost.
Today, electronic LED flashers can be bought for less than an automotive flasher.

One flasher I found (and txaero121 found the same model) is well under $10, small and rated at 0.02A to 10A. That easily fills the
range we need. At the high current side, our scooters run just under 50 watts (around 4 amps) with stock lamps. With a LED
conversion a couple amps less.

--- Seller description and photos
  • 2 Pin CF12 12V LED Flasher Relay. Suitable for motorcycle or scooter use to prevent turn signal hyper flashing
  • Eliminates the need for load resistors, turn signals will flash at normal rate with or without LED bulbs
  • Cubic shape 2-prong/pin CF-12 LED flasher (Size: 1.43 x 1.33 x 1.00")
  • Work for cars or motorycles to fix the fast/rapid flashing turn signal or prevent weak or non flashing LED blinking issues
Led_Flasher_Seller_Photos.jpg
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Last edited by mousewheels on Wed Mar 16, 2022 11:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

Testing
The flasher was tested with 4 loads
  1. Minium Load 500ohms + 2 LEDs in parallel - Approximately 0.02A to test the MFG's low end spec
  2. 1 Turn signal LED -
  3. 1 50 watt equivalent white LED lamp. It has an internal regulating supply so is a more complex load
  4. 1 Spree/Elite headlamp with both filaments lit. 25 watts x 2. Simulates the incandescent load of using this flasher with OEM turn signal lamps
  5. Starter motor on a bench supply. A 15 amp current limit was set on the power supply.
Load Test results:
All loads were flashed properly. The starter motor briefly drew just under 15 amps each time it started. At the end of a few seconds of pulsing the motor, the power transistor within the flasher was barely warmer than finger temperature.

Minor nit: In the 0.02A light load test, the LEDs give one very short blink at startup.

Voltage test:
Supply voltage for the flasher was varied from 8 to 15v. The flasher rate seemed stable and all 3 LEDs loads would flash over the voltage range.

Revere polarity test:
With a Power supply +output connected to the "L" pin (flasher output) and the "B" pin connected to Spree headlamp,
the result was the lamp was always on.
When the leads were connected correctly, the flasher worked, showing it is tolerant of a mistaken connection.

Photo of loads used (Headlight not shown)
Flasher_Test_Loads.JPG
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Last edited by mousewheels on Wed Mar 16, 2022 12:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

Teardown
The flasher is easy to open, there is no potting, glue or plastic welding on the case.

Inside is a single sided surface mount PCB.
Flasher_Assembly.jpg
Flasher_Assembly.jpg (32.91 KiB) Viewed 3580 times

Detailed view
Electronic_LED_Flasher_sm1_an.jpg
Electronic_LED_Flasher_sm1_an.jpg (113.9 KiB) Viewed 3580 times
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

The Flasher switching device is a power MOSFET which will handle LEDs easily as well as the Incandescent lamps in our scooters.
There is no heat sink required at the 10 amp max the company lists. As noted with the starter motor, the device stays cool to the touch.

Some of the power MOSFET specs are shown below.
Note Incandescent lamp turn on draws many times the load once the lamp is lit. That makes the high current rating a required element of the design.

One other component choice to note is the filter and timing capacitors are ceramic. They will do much better over time/temperature than electrolytics.

PHB_66NQ03LT_Partial_Specs.jpg
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

Pros and Cons
  • Low cost, small, flashes *my* Led loads.
  • Design and construction looks adequate.
  • Reverse polarity connection tolerant
  • Met low and high current spec
  • Does not make an audible sound
  • Starts in the lamp off delay mode


    Check seller feedback and comments how it has worked for others LED installations
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by kuromi »

I bought a cheap LED flasher with a variable blink rate - one of those orange direct from China eBay jobs
What I found was that the LEDs never went out completely - the blink was bright, then a weak glow instead of off.
This was only fixed by adding a resistor parallel to the LED which kind of negated the power saving of using LED.

I don't know what the internals are like but I'm looking at making my own circuit using a 555 timer instead
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

I bought a cheap LED flasher with a variable blink rate - one of those orange direct from China eBay jobs
What I found was that the LEDs never went out completely - the blink was bright, then a weak glow instead of off. This was only fixed by adding a resistor parallel to the LED which kind of negated the power saving of using LED.
What size resistors did you need to add? Rats - I ordered some flashers like you describe this week. Won't be in until mid to end of Apr.

For the flasher in this thread, max quiescent current is roughly Vin/(R1 || R2 + R4).
I don't know what the internals are like but I'm looking at making my own circuit using a 555 timer instead
I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. I used the 555 staring with school...That chip hit 50 years old this year and still sells in the billion/yr range.

https://www.eejournal.com/article/happy ... -timer-ic/
Last edited by mousewheels on Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:10 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

Schematic
Here is a schematic traced from the PCB.
Electronic_LED_Flasher_Schematic_sm.jpg
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by Volvo850R »

I finally got LED blinkers working on the rear of the old spree . My question is how hot do they resistors get.? I got the tiny aluminum fin ones that i screwed underneath the frame away from anything. When I do the front I wanna know how to safely place the resistors … thanks
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

I finally got LED blinkers working on the rear of the old spree . My question is how hot do they resistors get.? I got the tiny aluminum fin ones that i screwed underneath the frame away from anything. When I do the front I wanna know how to safely place the resistors … thanks
Let's stay on topic here. I will copy this over to your thread where we have the history of your project.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by kuromi »

mousewheels wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:41 pm What size resistors did you need to add?
It was a while ago now, I think anything that's more Ohms than a filament bulb would do.
Anyway, you might get lucky with your purchase

mousewheels wrote: Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:41 pm I'd be interested in seeing what you come up with. I used the 555 staring with school...That chip hit 50 years old this year and still sells in the billion/yr range.
Haven't looked in to this seriously yet (not at that stage with any builds)

The circuits I've seen either need a chip for each side of indicators, or have single 555 that's permanently pulsing.
I'm sure an expert would be able to figure out how to use some transistors and diodes to control the current flow
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

It was a while ago now, I think anything that's more Ohms than a filament bulb would do.
Anyway, you might get lucky with your purchase
Thanks - I'll be prepared to add loads if needed.
Haven't looked in to this seriously yet (not at that stage with any builds)

The circuits I've seen either need a chip for each side of indicators, or have single 555 that's permanently pulsing.
I'm sure an expert would be able to figure out how to use some transistors and diodes to control the current flow
Interesting ideas and challenge to make your own flasher or electronics for your scooter.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

The 2 pin adjustable flashers came in a few weeks ago, and I discovered some issues with the new flasher.

Most time was spent waiting for new parts:
1) A different set of LED's 12v-24v with built in regulators
2) Electrical components for experiments.

At the end of the day - it looks that either flasher will work without adding large power resistors.
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

2 Pin Adjustable Flasher - Seller Photos
Seller_Photo.JPG
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Seller_Photo_2.JPG
Seller_Photo_2.JPG (21.94 KiB) Viewed 2821 times
Specs:
'Adjustable frequency, 50 times/min -200 times/min'
'Adjustable rotation, clockwise flash speed becomes slow, counterclockwise speed becomes fast'

The flasher has a rating of 2 x 23watt lamps + 3.4w flasher indicator.
That is about what our scooters draw with OEM lamps.

The current rating is below the fixed flasher which is rated '12v 0.02A - 10A'
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Re: Electronic 2 Pin LED Flasher Test

Post by mousewheels »

Flasher Teardown
Soldering of the PCB to the connector terminals was not heated enough to flow into the plated holes.
More on that later
Teardown_1.JPG
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Teardown_2.JPG
Teardown_2.JPG (38.51 KiB) Viewed 2820 times
Flasher Comparison
Adjustable_vs_Fixed_Flasher_Assy.JPG
Adjustable_vs_Fixed_Flasher_Assy.JPG (40.44 KiB) Viewed 2820 times
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