Crap...!

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:12 pm

Hi everyone, I'm new here and I have just bought my first ever scooter - a 1984 Honda Nifty 50 which I am assuming is a Spree marketed differently in New Zealand...

Anyway, I bought this little scooter and have ridden it to school a couple of times.

Today I got to the top of a little hill, and I suddenly lost power and the bike came to a halt. From then on, I haven't been able to start it.

It only has electric start and that turns over fine, just nothing happens from there.

I've read all the posts in the Read This First sticky but since I am not very mechanically minded, I think I'll just take it to a mechanic.

It has oil and everything but I am only assuming the oil mixer pump thing is working - I didn't realise there was so much stuff I should have checked!

Before I go and spend $150 on getting it fixed, does anybody have any words of wisdom for me? Perhaps this is something simple?

I am kind of reluctant to take off the side covers because the plastics are in such bad condition, I don't know if 'll be able to get them back on, but I can take them off if I need to.

Thanks all!

Vinnie

junkyspree · Post by **junkyspree** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:35 pm

Sorry to hear that Vinnie, mine had the same symptoms. My Spree had a sezied topend possibly from not running a cylinder shroud...who knows? Hopefully your's will be simple fix. Check to see if it has compression. Take a look at the plug, check your wiring... could be something as simple as your plug boot came off. Then remove your carb and make sure it is clean and not gummed up, same goes with your airfilter. Someone a little more wise will chime in, I'm sure.

Clivester · Post by **Clivester** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:56 am

Hi:

If you want to try some troubleshooting yourself, its best to first check the basics - does it have spark and does it have fuel.

To check spark remove the spark plug or use a spare plug if you have one. Stick it on the spark plug and place the side of the plug (threaded metal part) against a bare metal part of the frame of engine. Turn over the engine 2 or 3 times and check the spark plug for a bright blue spark jumping across the points. Its best done in subdued lighting. If you have a nice spark, suspect a fuel problem. If no spark try grounding the plug against a different area of the bike. If still no spark, you have an electrical/ignition problem.

To check the fuel issue when you have a spark, replace the plug, get some starter fluid and spray some into the airbox. Then try starting the bike. If it starts and runs a little bit then dies, you have a problem with not enough fuel getting to the engine.

If you try these things and post results I'm sure folks will try to give more specific help.

Cheers mate!

Clive.

playingwithmud · Post by **playingwithmud** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:19 am

Im not sure if this will help any but my Honda Aero50 had an old spark plug on it and the spark plug bot would not stay on it. When ever I hit a bump it would start to miss fire and then run fine again and I couldnt figure it out. After I hit a huge pot hole it stoped running and wouldnt start. Come to find out the wire was just falling off and then back on and when I hit the big bump it finaly fell off completly. The simple fix was a new spark plug and crimping the top of the spark plug wire so it held on better. Hope this helps. Other wise what Clivester said to do is a realy good start and could help us help you. By the way welcome to the site!

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:29 am

Clivester wrote:
To check spark remove the spark plug or use a spare plug if you have one. Stick it on the spark plug and place the side of the plug (threaded metal part) against a bare metal part of the frame of engine.

Just adding on to what Clive said.

Do not hold the spark plug with your hand when checking for spark, lay the spark plug with the plug wire attached onto something metal. Make sure the metal threads or the area around them is touching metal.

While cranking the engine over look at the gap at the end of the spark plug, it should spark nice and blue.

I just wanted to make sure you did not hold the plug while checking or you will get yourself shocked.

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:21 am

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your quick replies, it's really great knowing that there's a backup team online!!! This site is awesome.

Anyway, I took off the carburettor and took that to bits, there was a little bit of rust at the bottom of the float bowl which I scratched off and cleaned up, it mightn't have been rust even but I took it out anyway. I blew through the jets and took special care not to damage anything. I didn't take out what I think is the throttle jet (I didn't have the right tools and a pencil didn't work to push it through).

Once I had it back on, I turned it over and it's still the same: not starting. I got a quote from a mechanic here, $78 dollar per hour! Hope it's not seized.

One last thing, the little black thing which I think is the ByStarter (What does this do by the way?) looks different to the one on the guide to cleaning a carb. The second picture shows their ByStarter, and theirs has a little needle sticking out of it where it goes into the carb. Mine didn't have this, it just had a spring that goes into a hole in the carb and then I had to carefully slot the bystarter on top of the carb to make sure the spring went into the little hole on the bystarter. Does this sound abnormal?

Hope this made sense. Thanks for all your help guys.

Vinnie

Clivester · Post by **Clivester** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:23 pm

ALOW1 wrote:
I just wanted to make sure you did not hold the plug while checking or you will get yourself shocked.

Thanks ALOW1 I missed mentioning that - definitely a bad thing to check voltage by experiencing it

Vinnie:

You should definitely check for spark before you go too far. Always best to check the basics first - otherwise you could get off on a wild goose chase.

Your bystarter IS BAD. There should be a little shiney solid metal cylinder in front of the spring and then a small tapered needle in front of that, all as one unit. Make sure the other bits are not still in the carb body. This may or may not be the problem though - hard to imagine it would cause the bike to suddenly stop, though it would possible make trying to start back up again harder.

Clive.

maddog · Post by **maddog** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:54 am

SPARK + FUEL + COMPRESSION= ITS SIMPLE

lacrosseboy · Post by **lacrosseboy** » Fri Aug 15, 2008 11:08 pm

i agree

i hope is starts working for you

ALOW1 · Post by **ALOW1** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:49 am

Clivester wrote:
ALOW1 wrote:
I just wanted to make sure you did not hold the plug while checking or you will get yourself shocked.
Thanks ALOW1 I missed mentioning that - definitely a bad thing to check voltage by experiencing it

Clive.

Its all good Clive, I think most of us who have worked on a few engines over the years have had to experience what it feels like to get shocked by an ignition system. It will get your attention FAST and you will spend the rest of your life trying not to let it happen again.

For those that have never experienced it, keep taking precautions like your doing so that you dont know what it feels like.

junkyspree · Post by **junkyspree** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:44 am

You guys are a bunch of wimps

: that's how I test my wires. Stick my pinkie up in the boot and fire her up. I learned from my uncle back when I was a boy and we worked on granny's old 357 impala.

losthope · Post by **losthope** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:51 am

junkyspree wrote:You guys are a bunch of wimps : that's how I test my wires. Stick my pinkie up in the boot and fire her up. I learned from my uncle back when I was a boy and we worked on granny's old 357 impala.

i dont think its a matter of being a whimp... thats just stupid to test spark with your finger. s*** you cant even see what the spark looks like that way. not like it takes longer to do it proper... i have a friend that is a plumber and he tests for power at controls by touch, crazy.

junkyspree · Post by **junkyspree** » Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:40 pm

All in what you've grown up with. My role models haven't allways been entirely correct in the way they've gone about things. What I was stating was if there is not spark at the plug, I test my wire very quickly with my finger...if I feel a tingle at least I know I'm getting current.

vinnie · Post by **vinnie** » Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:38 pm

Hey everyone who answered,

Well, I got it working!!!

I took it to a bike shop and they looked at it and found that it had no spark. They replaced the spark plug, tried a different coil and then rang me up and told me my scooter was a piece of rubbish and should be thrown in the dump. They suspected the CDI or the magneto or something...

I took it back home to try to suss it out myself and disconnected every electrical device that I could, rubbed dirt off contacts, and just mucked around with everything and then when I checked for spark, I had one.

After I put everything back together, the scooter went, and now it goes better than ever!

One thing though: I can only go 50kmh, that's 31mph. Is that slow? It shows 60 on the speedo, what would I need to do to make it go 60kmh?

Cheers guys!