Orange spark?? Thats not right. . . is it?

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:52 pm

At this point im not really sure.

if you keep it reved up, what happens? like will it stay running?

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:00 pm

No, not at all. It will idle for 4-5 seconds or I can have it revved all the way up for 4-5 seconds. Then it abruptly dies, either way.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:15 pm

wow dude, i dont know.

do it a few times and look at the plug. Does the plug come out wet?

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:15 pm

Carb problems

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:21 pm

Kenny_McCormic wrote:Carb problems

Think so? Even though it only started for the first time AFTER I put a little oil in the cylinder?

Cuz if its a carb problem, im going to one happy camper.

What kind of carb problem do you suspect? Should I just remove it and clean it?

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:25 pm

Do you still have spark right after the engine dies? This could be an ignition that is marginal to start with and then once it runs it kills itself with a short from the higher voltage caused by the engine running.

Dac · Post by **Dac** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:28 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:Do you still have spark right after the engine dies? This could be an ignition that is marginal to start with and then once it runs it kills itself with a short from the higher voltage caused by the engine running.

could be, thats what i was thinking, thats why i was asking him about the plug being wet after it happening.

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:35 pm

Well its too dark here now to pull the plug and try (darn it). But im pretty excited that it might not be that the top end is gone!

So can anyone suggest a way for me to check if its an ignition problem? If I take out the plug, and its wet? If its dry?

Bear45-70 · Post by **Bear45-70** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:42 pm

scooternewby wrote:Well its to dark here now to give it a try. But im pretty excited that it might not be that the top end is gone!

So can anyone suggest a way for me to check if its an ignition problem? If I take out the plug, and its wet? If its dry?

Old timers have a spark tester. For newbees do this; Have a second spark plug with the gap opened up to about .060" to .080" and have the body panel off and when the engine dies, pull the plug wire off, plug the spare plug in and ground the plug and crank the motor. Wearing gloves or using insulated pliers to hold the plug is a good idea to prevent a major shock. If you have spark, then it isn't the ignition system. No spark and you will think the top end repair was cheap compared to what the ignition parts cost.

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:49 pm

Bear45-70 wrote:
scooternewby wrote:Well its to dark here now to give it a try. But im pretty excited that it might not be that the top end is gone!

So can anyone suggest a way for me to check if its an ignition problem? If I take out the plug, and its wet? If its dry?
No spark and you will think the top end repair was cheap compared to what the ignition parts cost.

HA! Well thats comforting, kinda. Im going to give it a go first thing in the morning. My fingers are crossed

Kenny_McCormic · Post by **Kenny_McCormic** » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:35 pm

Pull off parts are cheap. A coil is a coil, especially in a CDI setup.

dgsoles · Post by **dgsoles** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 3:44 am

Ok, so, it's possible that you just had stuck rings (like my Spree did), and when you added oil and fired it up, it may have broken the rings free from the piston. Unfortunately, mine did not do this, and I had to rebuild my entire top end. But, you may be lucky. As the others were saying, it sounds like you have some carb problems. Those have been plaguing my bike since I got it running. May I suggest cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, cleaning, making a sacrifice of one pure red-headed virgin to the scooter god, cleaning your carb. Oh, and when you're done with all of that, clean your carb again. This involves completely stripping it down to all of its basic components, and blowing EVERYTHING out with carb cleaner, then compressed air. And, if you're lucky, and have an uncle like mine, he'll lend you some aluminum-safe carb cleaner dip, which apparently works wonders, as now my idle jet is finally unclogged (something which the spray type carb cleaner, GUMOUT, failed to do).

Wheelman-111 · Post by **Wheelman-111** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:57 am

Greetings:

Internal combustion engines need three things to run, presuming the heavy parts are in working order:

1. Fuel Mixture
2. Compression
3. Spark at the right time.

Number 3 is unlikely to be the problem. Everyone always talks about "Timing" being "off", because it sounds smart. However unless your ECM is going bad - usually a heat-related symptom and since it won't start, your bike never gets close to hot - "Timing" does NOT just spontaneously go out of adjustment. Stick to 1 and 2.

You can test number 2 easily and inexpensively. Go to Harbor Freight Tools and ask them for this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... mber=92697

Any excuse to buy a new tool is a good one. Screw it down snugly in your spark plug hole. Bring your plug to HFT to see if you'll need some sort of adapter. Then with the tool plugged on, crank your engine over for a bit. The procedure for your model is outlined somewhere in here:

http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=5

From memory it needs to read about 120 PSI or close to it. You can re-try your capful of oil trick to see how much it changes. From what I've read about your bike, it may indicate the ring seal may be a bit tired, but not the critical problem.

It sounds to me like your issue is with number 1. Your fuel flow is down to a trickle for some reason. That's why it runs for a few seconds until the fuel in the bowl has burned off, then quits. The smoke is blue because A: It's a Two-Stroke, and 2: You've been pouring capfuls of oil into a cold combustion chamber.

Chunky gas is not uncommon in vehicles with metal tanks. Pop your fuel cap off and have a look down there. What, can't see? Just whip out your trusty Zippo and - NO!! - I'm kidding! But do rock your bike around while peering in with some (non-sparky) light source and see if there's schmutz down there. The technical term is spooge. This test is just about free, unless you don't own a flashlight.

The next place to check is the fuel filter/petcock if you have one. Hopefully here is where you'll find the problem, since it's easy and cheap to correct. There is a vacuum-dependent flow valve that can fail. See above to find where it is and how to test it.

It's cheap insurance to install an inline fuel filter to back up the stock one, if possible. Its clear walls allow you to check the content of the fuel and it's sure easier to dismantle than a carb bowl, which is probably what you're going to need to do. There are several very good posts on carb overhaul in the Tech areas of this Collective.

Take your time, think about what you want to accomplish and be systematic. Your bike shall scoot again!

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:45 am

Bear45-70 wrote:Do you still have spark right after the engine dies? This could be an ignition that is marginal to start with and then once it runs it kills itself with a short from the higher voltage caused by the engine running.

How soon after do you mean? Because I can keep starting it over and over again and it will just keep starting and dying, starting and dying.

scooternewby · Post by **scooternewby** » Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:47 am

I have a feeling its not compression, but fuel. It WILL push my finger off the hole when I kick it, but i'll do the real test anyway. And today im going to clean the carb. Should be easy enough to clean?

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