86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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nateberrier
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86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by nateberrier » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:12 pm

Hi All,

I'm new here and it seems like the forums are all dying off due to facebook groups, but Im trying to soak up as much as possible and extend my hands wherever I can.

I bought an 86 Aero a month ago that hadnt run since 88, 3600 Miles on it. Owner replaced stock carb with what I can assume is a chinese one or maybe a spree carb, whatever the case its not oem per the manual. I have to hold the throttle a little till its warmed up, but afterward I can get it to go 40-43 if not super hilly.

When I hit about 25mph it seems like it hits a dead spot and I assume its changing gear, but overall she scoots pretty good. Obviously, I have the bug and I want more.

I bought new rollers and new belt to get up to speed, on the way is a KELI variator with 7.5 weights (10g is stock).

I want to get a little more out of this bike, but not sure where to start. Ive looked at BBK obviously, but I wasnt sure if thats a good route as I havent torn down an engine before and I dunno if I need to buy a bunch more tools to accomplish the job. Also I would hate to kill summer fun by having to do 1-200 miles of break in at half speed.

Ive seen people talk about cleaning the exhaust by torching it, but I dunno if thats worth it with 3600 on the clock, or if its bad for the exhaust.

Other options would be attempting to port the jug /intake /exhaust, but that makes me a little nervous as Im first timing this. Im guessing a proper carb with a jet kit would be needed after as well.

Would getting a slightly bigger carb offer benefits as a starting place? Im trying to get one in the honda scooters only facebook group, but people are lackadaisical

Im sorry if I am all over the place, just have a lot of questions and directions, some sites seem to be a little vague also.

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Wheelman-111
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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Wheelman-111 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:59 pm

Greetings:

@ 3600 miles, the exhaust is probably ok. The Keli will help the flat spot in midrange. 65cc cylinders for SE05 are getting scarce, but by far the best way to go. Top speed will be limited by lack of gears more than anything. Welcome and read all you can here.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

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harleyracer59
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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by harleyracer59 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:16 pm

you can buy an expansion chamber/ exhaust. theyre either rare or expensive. ive modified pipes made for other bikes to fit my af05's. turned out real good. you can also get the zx or gy6 rear performance pulley. the have a bigger outside diameter. gives you a bit more take off. you can replace the rear tire. stock is 275. you can squeeze a 3.0x10 on stock rim. with a wider rim, you can shoehorn a 90/90-10. the taller tire will give you more top end but take off will suffer.
if youre afraid to install a bbk, don't ttry porting your stock cylinder. theres way mor knowledge needed for porting than just swapping a cylinder. if you want to pull the stock cylinder, you should have no problem putting a big bore cylinder back on. you could also buy 2 thick base gaskets, get a spree or domed 41mm piston (stock is dished) get the higher compression spree head (84-85 I believe). sand the top cylinder and head mating surfaces flat and bolt back together. the extra base gasket gives you some more port timing, while the domed piston and smaller CC head should restore the compression lost by the extra base gasket. wont shred any tires, but will add a little rpm and a tiny bit of hp.
larger carburetors can be hard to tune. especially if you remove the airbox. stick with your stock carb and learn jetting and tuning on it. once you understand it, then maybe get a dio/ CT intake and a bigger carb.
you can also look for the super rare, 1 year only 87 elite se50 gears.
you gotta start somewhere. lol
just remember. I modification at a time. put back together and test before starting next mod. this may take longer and seem mundane but it lets you learn and understand each up grade. do three things at once and something is wrong at testing time, that's 3 variables you gotta inspect and figure out which bis the problem. do 1 mod test and if theres a miss, you know where to look.

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Wheelman-111
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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Wheelman-111 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:34 pm

Greetings:

Harleyracer gave great tips, but to the best of my knowledge a ZX pulley cannot be used on an 05 block. The cranknstem is too short for the wider 18mm belt.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Meatball » Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:36 pm

The AF05 is a great motor in stock form...if yours runs, leave it alone. Save any tinkering for Winter months so not to kill your Summer fun.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by harleyracer59 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:59 pm

I have 1 of them on 1 of my af05's the others I run 50cc GY6 pulleys. theyre easier to find and cheaper on price plus you have 2-3 groove patterns to choose from for sliding open.
the ruckus/met/gy6/dio variator can be ran if you clearance the cvt cavity for variator and belt. all are the same diameter. you just need to retain your var. boss and add a thick washer/ spacer. they all use a 20mm OD.
the 18 belt is the tricky part. I have found a couple no name brand 669x18 belts that are thinner than the others. those work good ride a little high on variator until the break in. then theyre perfect.
Ive also ran a 666x16.8 belt that fits great. its my first choice on this set up
you can run a 655x15.5 also but it rides a little lower on the rear pulley. I use this belt on my 84' aero. it has abo7 bottom end, af01 lead bbk, ct/dio intake 20mm mikuni flatslide, polini variator W/bored out gy6 boss, and the rear pulley is stock back with gy6 perf. front half using the straight cut grooves. whole rear gy6 pulley can be used if back bearing is swapped for a spree rear back pulley bearing.

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by nateberrier » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:29 am

Wheelman-111 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:59 pm
Greetings:

@ 3600 miles, the exhaust is probably ok. The Keli will help the flat spot in midrange. 65cc cylinders for SE05 are getting scarce, but by far the best way to go. Top speed will be limited by lack of gears more than anything. Welcome and read all you can here.
I suppose Ill just paint it then, I know the oil pump leaks cause if it sits for a few days I get a lot of white smoke (GN2 oil)

Ive found several polini kits in europe that will ship here, a couple airsal kits, and malossi looks like its easy to get hold of for bbk in US. Looks like malossi sells gears too but I have heard they are too tall.

Also the Keli Var did help the flat spot quite a bit and its great! Im going off to what seems like ~45mph on flat/slight downhill so Im pretty happy with that.
harleyracer59 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:16 pm
you can buy an expansion chamber/ exhaust. theyre either rare or expensive. ive modified pipes made for other bikes to fit my af05's. turned out real good. you can also get the zx or gy6 rear performance pulley. the have a bigger outside diameter. gives you a bit more take off. you can replace the rear tire. stock is 275. you can squeeze a 3.0x10 on stock rim. with a wider rim, you can shoehorn a 90/90-10. the taller tire will give you more top end but take off will suffer.
if youre afraid to install a bbk, don't ttry porting your stock cylinder. theres way mor knowledge needed for porting than just swapping a cylinder. if you want to pull the stock cylinder, you should have no problem putting a big bore cylinder back on. you could also buy 2 thick base gaskets, get a spree or domed 41mm piston (stock is dished) get the higher compression spree head (84-85 I believe). sand the top cylinder and head mating surfaces flat and bolt back together. the extra base gasket gives you some more port timing, while the domed piston and smaller CC head should restore the compression lost by the extra base gasket. wont shred any tires, but will add a little rpm and a tiny bit of hp.
larger carburetors can be hard to tune. especially if you remove the airbox. stick with your stock carb and learn jetting and tuning on it. once you understand it, then maybe get a dio/ CT intake and a bigger carb.
you can also look for the super rare, 1 year only 87 elite se50 gears.
you gotta start somewhere. lol
just remember. I modification at a time. put back together and test before starting next mod. this may take longer and seem mundane but it lets you learn and understand each up grade. do three things at once and something is wrong at testing time, that's 3 variables you gotta inspect and figure out which bis the problem. do 1 mod test and if theres a miss, you know where to look.
I figure id have to weld a pipe to fit and Im not comfortable with welding enough to do that / Id have to find another pip and get it adjusted and its not worth it to me currently.

I saw several people say a 90/90 will fit stock, but im pretty tight on clearance already, esp around the exhaust mounts, dunno how it would fit. Anyway that might be a next move, a bigger and more proper tire. I did replace both (previous owner gave me some cheng shein tires or whatever theyre called) but they make me nervous to corner on (also first bike, dunno how dangerous it is to lean in on those tires or if it matters on a scoot)

I dont have any issues paying for the BBK, ill just want to go slow and put it on, might be something for the winter build. Also dont want to kill the stock oil pump, but also want more juice.

Unfortunately current carb is a chinese boi and not stock. Id like to get a stock carb from someone but everyone has flaked so far :(

I appreciate all the help so far.

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by bonesv » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:22 am

If you go to a BBK you should consider just ditching the oil pump and going to premix. Eliminates the leak issue. There's also intake adapters out there that would allow a more suitable carburetor. Try treatland.tv they have some hard to find items. Shoot us a few pics from time to time.
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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by nateberrier » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:18 pm

I read on here that getting 85 jets would help even on a stock bike? Does anyone have experience?

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Meatball » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:46 pm

Jet swap on your stock bike will do nothing but make it run worse. Honda did the footwork for optimal stock operation. Doing a small upjet, Im sure it will run but it will not increase performance...it will increase your fuel consumption.

Find those 87’ SE50 Elite 10:1 gears for a few extra mph’s on the top end. Go for BBK, intake, carb, filter, pipe for acceleration. The AF05 is a money pit to modify since parts are scarce and will never perform as well as an AF16/18. I suggest either leaving it stock or ditching the 05 and find yourself an AF16/18. Sky’s the limit on those.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by nateberrier » Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:56 pm

Meatball wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:46 pm
Jet swap on your stock bike will do nothing but make it run worse. Honda did the footwork for optimal stock operation. Doing a small upjet, Im sure it will run but it will not increase performance...it will increase your fuel consumption.

Find those 87’ SE50 Elite 10:1 gears for a few extra mph’s on the top end. Go for BBK, intake, carb, filter, pipe for acceleration. The AF05 is a money pit to modify since parts are scarce and will never perform as well as an AF16/18. I suggest either leaving it stock or ditching the 05 and find yourself an AF16/18. Sky’s the limit on those.
I found a leo vince for sale for vision 50 in europe. Would it be worth grabbing an exhaust and doing a rejet without a BBK. That would avoid the gear thing for now id imagine?

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Wheelman-111 » Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:39 pm

Greetings:

I had that pipe on Flash 1, and I thought it was pretty good. Kit #4447 to mount it to the SE05 block if I recall correctly. It should perk up the performance of the stock engine, at least a little. Stock main on the '87 Aero was 82 (again from limited Wheel-memory) and the pipe should let you run an 85. If you later decide to go with a Polini 47mm (65cc) cylinder, you need 88-90 main.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
Still Seeking Red PCX-150
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox, Carb and Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 99KPH

:coolcruise:

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Re: 86 Aero AF05E Mild Performance Increase

Post by Meatball » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:10 pm

nateberrier wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:56 pm
Would it be worth grabbing an exhaust and doing a rejet without a BBK?
If thats all youre gonna do...no. It might give you 1-2mph gain in top speed but it wont do much else. Not worth the investment.

A bbk/carb/intake/pipe,etc...would shoot you up to 50-ish, killer acceleration and able to climb hills like a billy goat. Its really a symphony of components. Need all the instruments to make the music magical.
I need to find some new haters...the ones I have are starting to like me.

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