Honda Spree and Elite 50 Forums

tazland001 wrote:opinion

You got that right....

Of course the 48 will make more torque and horsepower than the 44, there is no replacement for displacement. BUT, that does not mean that the 44 isn't more streetable than the 48 and the 44 is most assuredly easier to tune that the 48. Besides that to get that power out of the 48, you need a bigger carb and and better exhaust, which of course are not available yet. Hopefully soon.

tazland001 wrote: Hey fast did your friends break in those kits? If they did not then thats what happens. If the kits are not broke in they will soft seize up to 3 times and then goodbye compression. I am not aware of any new BB kits that you can wot right out of the box. And dont worry fast I wont stop until the spree hits 50mph. We all know how you just tell everyone to swap in a dio engine. lol.

Taz

Umm first of all stronger maybe, balanced is another thing... i can see your angle though you invested your money to have these kits made and now you have to sell them, if they are a flop then your stuck with a heep of crap. Also with the way you turned into a * once i said a word about the 44mm being better and then telling ppl how high you can jump your scooter at a motorcross event, leads me to belive your nothing more then a money hungrey * whos willing to say anything to make a dollar. P.S. if you want a better range of parts, higher topspeed, more power, THEN SWAP A DIO

I can easily jump another hill and take a pic. And as far as a money hungry * you are wrong. My reputation on here should speak for its self. I do free give aways and have given free parts to established members on here. I also give discounts and have never ripped off one person ever. Its kinda funny how you attack my character. Dude do you even have any real dio engines? Or do you even own a dio? The dio engine has a vent by the starter for the gas pump. You use the elite sr(94-2001) engine made for the American market. That is the only difference butI just wanted to clarify that. Dont be a hater because some of us want to build up our spree's. And palstic I dont just sell the parts I use them on my spree, pal ,and honda elite e. I only own 8 scooters. 6 hondas, 1 piaggio, and one piece of s*** chinese scooter. I talk the talk and walk the walk homie.

Taz

your right i do have an af16e on my SPREE... What you failed to see is i bought my 44mm bbk from you and i love it ran great you could tune pretty easy and it made a lot of power, I would tell everyone and there brother to buy that. Now with the 48mm kits, they where broke in correctly, you dont have to belive a word I say but you can always ask Traffic Jamz he does happen to be a really good friend and I work out of his shop.... But back to what i was saying if you search the honda spree website you will find many problems with the 48mm kits due to fixed jetting (which you have said you are trying to fix, but strangley are having all this luck with your stock carb ), Then the vibration because the piston is not balanced with the stroke (which i guess that might be why you want to make a stroker crank ) So good luck to yah in your quest for 50 on a spree!

Thats funny the stroker crank. lol. A little longer stroke would help the spree turtle engine. hehe

I never heard of the vibration issue due to balancing. That is new to me.

As far as tuning that is easy for me also. Guess experience and a wide jet selection helps.

I always knew you talked up the 44mm with gears. I appretiate that.

Its all good Plastic your a good memeber with good advice for the peeps. Just figured I would put in my 2 pennies into the discussion. lol

Taz

Bear45-70 wrote:Of course the 48 will make more torque and horsepower than the 44, there is no replacement for displacement. BUT, that does not mean that the 44 isn't more streetable than the 48 and the 44 is most assuredly easier to tune that the 48. Besides that to get that power out of the 48, you need a bigger carb and and better exhaust, which of course are not available yet. Hopefully soon.

if the 44 with gears does good, will it do better with a ported intake and a tuned pipe that im gona try and make out of an expantion chamber from a rass exaust??
will the 44mm and gears act better than a 48mm with out a tuned pipe and a bigger carb??

For whatever it is worth.

I never go into in this type of modification thinking it is a bolt on application. I think that is pretty foolish and will effect the end product. With the percentage of bore increase I think it is important to consider the effect it has on the total package and try to improve on the combination.

For anyone who cares I took some piston/pin/clips and ring weight measurements on a gram scale. My calculations show the difference to be around 22 grams.
A stock 84 Spree piston/pin/rings combo came in a 68 grams
My 44mm BBK came in at 78 grams
My 48mm BBK came in at 90 grams

I doubt that the NQ50 motor is a perfect balanced motor in its stock form. But 22 grams may be enough to cause an unbalanced situation to the rotating assembly. Actually preventing the motor to reach the same RPM the motor was able to achieve in stock form. Hence losing any speed gains with the taller gears because of the reduced RPM.

What I have been able to do to date is remove 19 grams of the bob weight of the piston/rod and pin. That gets me within 3 grams of stock weight. For comparison that is about the weight of 3 one dollar bills. With a little more work I think I can get another 3 grams of bob weight out of the assembly. I may take those 3 grams out of the crank pin (journal) itself. At the very least it will be closer than it was had I just bolted together the way it was.

Next is the porting.I have little doubt the increased bore is going to have increased flow requirements. Opening up the reed block area portion of the block was easy but the intake ports in the cylinder are difficult and limited to what can be opened up because of limited base gasket sealing surface on the NQ50 block. I plan on doing more in this area but at the same time not changing the port timing. This is tedious work and I need to do it when I haven't been drinking coffee. LOL

The exhaust port is pretty easy and 90% of the size change I made to the exhaust port was by going wider not longer so not to change the port timing.

I am using an Arrechi 17.5 carb and sb50 intake and reed block. I just got some .4mm carbon sheet to make some reeds out of once I do some work on the reed block. I may experiment with a single reed. I know that is not the ideal situation but it might be worth the trade off for now. I have enough material to try it both ways and have several sb50 reed blocks to work with.

I will post some pictures before I am ready to assemble.

possibly and deffinatly yes

tazland001 wrote:Thats funny the stroker crank. lol. A little longer stroke would help the spree turtle engine. hehe

I never heard of the vibration issue due to balancing. That is new to me.

As far as tuning that is easy for me also. Guess experience and a wide jet selection helps.

I always knew you talked up the 44mm with gears. I appretiate that.

Its all good Plastic your a good memeber with good advice for the peeps. Just figured I would put in my 2 pennies into the discussion. lol

Taz

Didn't mean for it to go to this...... and im sure not all kits are made the same, close but only so much you can do....i just to give an honest opinion based on the experience my friends and I have had with your kits..... the only real problem with the 48mm kit is that you did rush it (can't blame you * is expensive) but it should have been released with carb and intake at least and a head as well..... exhaust would always help but i don't think should be top of list.... when i try to give advice on the nq50 i always try to ask the user what they intend to do with.... what im going for and what they are going for is sometimes different...... sorry for the troubles man but i will always rep. the 44mm it did great by me and so have you!

but will a ported intake and a tuned pipe pull more out of the 44 with gears

Short answer is; "If you increase displacement, then to get full power out of the increased displacement you need to increase the capabilities of the intake, that includes the carb and the exhaust." You will have to fabricate your own exhaust, until Taz comes out with his exhaust there is none made. To really improve the intake you will need an adapter to use one of the 4 bolt intakes and a bigger carb. The CT manifold is way over kill. Or you can wait until Taz releases his bigger intake and carb.

yeah i was gona try and make my own exaust.. but a ported in take probably wont do any good with the bbk .... if i dont get a bbk will the homemade pipe and a ported intake do the stock bore any good??

NO