Pod Filter Problem

[jeremydde]

Hi, I have a 2000 Dio with the mods listed in my signature. The problem is that the scooter bogs down and won't accelerate if the filter
is installed. If you remove the filter, the scooter drives perfectly fine. Throttle response is crisp, and it drives absolutely perfect. I have been running
this setup for 2 years with the current jetting and parts with a pod filter, and it has always ran perfectly until recently. I have a CT dual reed manifold, that looks brand
new inside still. The reeds appear to be in great condition and close properly. The carb is spotless inside, but just to make sure I installed new jets.
I even had the bore re-honed, and threw in new rings. The plug looks like a deep brown color, so it definately not lean. It's making more power than before (Had 11,000km on the first set of rings). I just don't understand why I would need to down-jet the carb suddenly? I cleaned the pod filter too, but as soon as I install it the scooter bogs, smokes and then floods until it stalls. I have already installed a new spark plug and coil, just in case. I am thinking of installing a foam pod filter that's less restrictive. Does anyone have any thoughts?

Jeremy

[Bear45-70]

Well, it is obviously the filter is choking the motor. Either get different filter that does not restrict the air flow as much or lean the carb out so the engine will run with that filter.

[jeremydde]

Well, it is obviously the filter is choking the motor. Either get different filter that does not restrict the air flow as much or lean the carb out so the engine will run with that filter.

True, this is obvious, but what I want to know is what could have changed? As I said this combo has worked for years. The filter doesn't seem that dirty. I washed it out thoroughly.

Jeremy

[bakaracer]

did you let it dry out good before you put it back on?if its wet still it will bogg the carb like how you explained.

[jeremydde]

did you let it dry out good before you put it back on?if its wet still it will bogg the carb like how you explained.

It sat for a few hours, and I blow dried it. It definately wasn't wet when I tried it out again. Just to clarify though, it bogged the scooter down before I washed it too. I'm reluctant to install smaller jets, so I'll try and get a foam filter for it instead.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Unknown material for the filter, but I'll assume it's open-cell polyurethane foam. Y'see, over time and fuel vapor contact that stuff turns into closed-cell polyurethane foam, just before it reverts to the primordial goo from whence it came. Ever take the airbox cover off a scooter that sat for >5 years, ya know?

Sorry you had to rebuild your scooter, but you might just have picked up a different filter first... Then again, any excuse to break out the tools.

Uhhh, whut's a Parmakit variator?

[Bear45-70]

Well, it is obviously the filter is choking the motor. Either get different filter that does not restrict the air flow as much or lean the carb out so the engine will run with that filter.

True, this is obvious, but what I want to know is what could have changed? As I said this combo has worked for years. The filter doesn't seem that dirty. I washed it out thoroughly.

Jeremy

As strange as it sounds I would expect the exhaust to be partially plugged or you have a carburator issue causeing the motor to be lean.

[jeremydde]

As strange as it sounds I would expect the exhaust to be partially plugged or you have a carburator issue causeing the motor to be lean.

I have looked at the carb carefully, and everything seems to be fine. The float measured out to 19mm-20mm and moves freely within the chamber. I can't find any vacuum leaks, and all the manifold bolts are indeed tight. Do you think it's possible that the Phongeer pipe got plugged? It's pretty much an empty chamber. Judging by the sound and the weight of it, I wouldn't doubt it if it was completely open inside. Also, it's definately too rich. The smoke pouring out the back when I install a filter, and the tears in my eyes confirm that!

Greetings:

Unknown material for the filter, but I'll assume it's open-cell polyurethane foam. Y'see, over time and fuel vapor contact that stuff turns into closed-cell polyurethane foam, just before it reverts to the primordial goo from whence it came. Ever take the airbox cover off a scooter that sat for >5 years, ya know?

Sorry you had to rebuild your scooter, but you might just have picked up a different filter first... Then again, any excuse to break out the tools.

Uhhh, whut's a Parmakit variator?

Regarding the Parmakit Variator:
http://www.parmakit.com/cpz22/jsp/index.jsp

This is the type of filter I have installed:

It was a good time to re-ring anyways. It feels much better with new rings, like brand new. The problem still persists however.

[Bear45-70]

As strange as it sounds I would expect the exhaust to be partially plugged or you have a carburator issue causeing the motor to be lean.

I have looked at the carb carefully, and everything seems to be fine. The float measured out to 19mm-20mm and moves freely within the chamber. I can't find any vacuum leaks, and all the manifold bolts are indeed tight. Do you think it's possible that the Phongeer pipe got plugged? It's pretty much an empty chamber. Judging by the sound and the weight of it, I wouldn't doubt it if it was completely open inside.

Well, something changed and a partially plugged passage in the carb is next to impossible to see, if at all. You need to squirt either carb cleaner or WD-40 thru all the passages to make sure they are clear.

The exhaust is easy to see if you pull it off, but just assuming it is clear proves nothing and eliminates nothing.

[jeremydde]

Well, something changed and a partially plugged passage in the carb is next to impossible to see, if at all. You need to squirt either carb cleaner or WD-40 thru all the passages to make sure they are clear.

The exhaust is easy to see if you pull it off, but just assuming it is clear proves nothing and eliminates nothing.

Fair enough, I'll inspect the exhaust pipe. Does anyone know if muriatic acid will take the varnish off the pipe? I've cleaned pipes with this acid before, but never a varnished one. I had the carb apart in great detail. Carb cleaner did pass through all small passages. I never store the scooter for the winter with fuel in it. Just to be certain though I'll try a full dismantle and clean it again. I've had this carb on and off the scooter 3 times this week already. I'm getting pretty good at removing, dismantling, reassembly, and reinstallation.

Also, my CHT's haven't changed from before when the scooter was running well to now. Under WOT the temperature hovers
at 125 degrees celcius. That's if I'm riding pretty hard. Driving through town the temp sits around 100 degrees C or so. Also, I checked
the new plug, and it's turning dark brown. It definately has plenty of fuel. I rode it WOT last night with no filter on for about 20min. I didn't do
a proper plug chop after WOT, but I don't think theres a problem there. The jets haven't been downsized, and the temperature is normal too.

Jeremy

[jeremydde]

A new foam airfilter has seemed to fix the problem. Runs exactly as it used to.

Jeremy

[burnt_toast]

Yup, good call. UNI filters work vastly better than gauze type on these setups

[Arnadanoob]

As strange as it sounds I would expect the exhaust to be partially plugged or you have a carburator issue causeing the motor to be lean.

I have looked at the carb carefully, and everything seems to be fine. The float measured out to 19mm-20mm and moves freely within the chamber. I can't find any vacuum leaks, and all the manifold bolts are indeed tight. Do you think it's possible that the Phongeer pipe got plugged? It's pretty much an empty chamber. Judging by the sound and the weight of it, I wouldn't doubt it if it was completely open inside. Also, it's definately too rich. The smoke pouring out the back when I install a filter, and the tears in my eyes confirm that!

Greetings:

Unknown material for the filter, but I'll assume it's open-cell polyurethane foam. Y'see, over time and fuel vapor contact that stuff turns into closed-cell polyurethane foam, just before it reverts to the primordial goo from whence it came. Ever take the airbox cover off a scooter that sat for >5 years, ya know?

Sorry you had to rebuild your scooter, but you might just have picked up a different filter first... Then again, any excuse to break out the tools.

Uhhh, whut's a Parmakit variator?

Regarding the Parmakit Variator:
http://www.parmakit.com/cpz22/jsp/index.jsp

This is the type of filter I have installed:

It was a good time to re-ring anyways. It feels much better with new rings, like brand new. The problem still persists however.

For moped air filtration, stay away from those cone type filters, the surface area and the breathe-ability of them isn't enough to feed a 72cc. I'm not a fan of the K&N types as they seem to restrict the engine quite badly, glad you found the solution with a UNI filter.

Your CHT's are very low, what kind of climate (ambient temps) are you riding in? Is it still winter (thus cold) in Vancouver? (sorry being in Hawaii means I'm negligent to climates.) I had to read your post twice since most CHT's I'm used to seeing reads in F instead of C. 125C is around 257F, 100C is around 212F. There's a specific reason why I don't rely on plug chops in favor of reading the mixture ring but I'll save that for later. For now I'd like to know what spark plug you're using (so I can determine the heat range) which greatly affects the appearance of the insulator. It's very possible to have the correct color on the insulator and still be either too lean or too rich. For colder climates should use a hotter range plug, hotter climates colder range, etc.

Brainbuster: This is just a brainbuster for you think about. A bike with a hotter plug and rich fuel mixture will result in a perfect plug chop color reading. A bike with a colder plug and lean fuel mixture will result in perfect plug chop color reading.

Back to the temps, 100C isn't even the operating temp for coolant on a watercooled bike. On bikes in temperate climates, 100C is for temps of an air cooled engine that's been sitting idling with no load for a while. 125C is around the temps for normal city/urban riding under mild loads, 150C for 50mph riding, 175C for full power run at max speed against the wind. Keep in minds that these temps are for temperate areas like Hawaii, Philippines, and most of the mid west. Humidity makes jetting a b*tch to tune and altitude changes affect air density. If you're above sea level (over 1500-2000ft), the bike starts to run rich as opposed to being at sea level so temps go down. Your jetting seems dead on the main jet for sea level 72cc engines.

[jeremydde]

The average ambient temperature here in Vancouver right now is between 20-35 degrees celcius. 20 degrees at night, and in the 30s during the day. This is at sea level too.
I am currently running an NGK BR6HS plug. I have been running 6's for a while now without a problem. I was riding the scooter pretty hard the other day and I was hitting 128 degrees C (262F) while at speed. Once I slowed down it rose to around 140C (284F) until it cooled down after cruising lightly for abit to around 110C (230F). Its always been cool like this. Before I installed the oko carb and pg pipe the temp was never higher than around 105C(221F) wide open for over an hour! Either I'm really rich, or something isn't right. It does around 65-70mph too (GPS verified) so it is running quite well. I tested the CHT probe in a boiling pot yesterday after reading about burnt_toast's temps, and the gauge matched the multimeter I was testing with.

Jeremy

[burnt_toast]

A 6? B8HS is heat range recommended for most kitted rides, a 6 is only for stock bores