ZX trans how-to

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

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steffen707
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:
You know the variator is uh... Variatin' when the groundspeed rises but RPM does not. You know it's maxed when the RPM rises linearly with speed.
You know, this makes sense now that you write it. I know generally how the whole CVT setup works, but never made a connection with that last part about the linearity of rpm and speed when variator is maxed out. DUH!!

I need to get my RPM and CHT KOSO gauge and install it to see what rpm is really at, also need to design something out of a long tube sock i'm thinking, along with some plastic ziplock bag and duct tape to wear my gps on my forearm cuz i don't like holding the handle bar with 2 fingers and 3 fingers holding my $250 gps for a 1/4 mile at a time testing top speeds :p
Wheelman-111 wrote: BTW Flash 3 got to 49MPH on pure-stock power with a smaller ~90mm Elite Polini vario and 9:1 gears, running 7.5 rollers and somewhere around 8500 RPM. Is your S exhaust washer still in there? Running a 78 or bigger Main? I wonder why it isn't faster than 41.
Well i didn't check the exhaust or jet yet, but i assume they are from the S and restricted. I have an SR exhaust and a V8 small bore exhaust coming today courtesy of another forum member and jets from bikebandit, also 9:1 and 8.4:1 gears from burnttoast. Also sometime i should get this stock ruckus variator from ebay and slap that on too.

I'm hoping that with the ruckus variator i do see more top end from the belt botoming out more in the rear pulley. But then with the bigger exhausts and 9:1 gears hitting 49 would be cool. I just wanted to leave my S exhaust stock and not drill anything out in case i want it back to stock, that's why i bought an extra one. Basically i'm buying all these parts to see what works best on my stock scoot, and then my moded up project one.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Wheelman-111
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

If you're truly on stock S power, then 41MPF is remarkably fast on 3 HP!
I just wanted to leave my S exhaust stock and not drill anything out in case i want it back to stock,
"Modding" the S into SR configuration really isn't going to impair your scooter's value, durability or desirability. Quite the contrary, and if you know the few steps involved you really should do this. (Pay no attention to the fact that I have a throttle-controlled oil pump and cable for sale in WTB section. :wink: ) Drill the exhaust header washer, install the higher-output oil pump, swap that accursed limiter vario and put in a decent main jet and you're done. It should last a good long time. What I recommend you NOT do is install an aftermarket pipe on an S without first jetting up the carb to at least 82-88.
You can keep the other S for the Serious Mods. :naughty:
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

My only concern was noise. I know a faster scoot will be worth more, but for $40 shipped for an SR exhaust that's cheap, plus I need an extra exhaust for a scoot where the muffler broke off.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by aerorob »

I hope those pipes get there for you today! The v8 really isn't loud, I live in a neighborhood and have never gotten any dirty looks. And as for jetting, on the stock bore and carb I jetted it at 88. Oh and just punch the extra air inlet hole out if you haven't already on your airbox.
2001 Elite SR48mm big bore, 90/90, keli vari, yws V8 30mm pipe, 8.4:1 gears 62 mph gps
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steffen707
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

If you're truly on stock S power, then 41MPF is remarkably fast on 3 HP!
I just wanted to leave my S exhaust stock and not drill anything out in case i want it back to stock,
"Modding" the S into SR configuration really isn't going to impair your scooter's value, durability or desirability. Quite the contrary, and if you know the few steps involved you really should do this. (Pay no attention to the fact that I have a throttle-controlled oil pump and cable for sale in WTB section. :wink: ) Drill the exhaust header washer, install the higher-output oil pump, swap that accursed limiter vario and put in a decent main jet and you're done. It should last a good long time. What I recommend you NOT do is install an aftermarket pipe on an S without first jetting up the carb to at least 82-88.
You can keep the other S for the Serious Mods. :naughty:
My 01 elite s has the throttle controlled oil pump, however it doesn't have the split cable. Is this oil pump the "high output" pump you speak of or did they also make a throttle controlled "low output" oil pump?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Wheelman-111
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

This is from Deepinnaharta Honda:
SA50P Pump: 15100-GS7-981
SA50 Oil Pump: 15100-GZ5-015
Presumably the SR pump is set up to deliver more oil to match the increased RPM demands of the unrestricted engine. Run that pump in a modded engine at the bore's peril.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
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steffen707
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Okay so i put the ruckus variator on my stock elite S with the ZX setup and.....NOTHING, absolutely no change from using the smaller oko variator with the zx setup.

I also have a question, why do we need to use the zx boss? Is it to keep the belt aligned with the front pulley half and the rear pulley half? The reason I ask is because the ruckus boss that came with the variator is a tiny bit shorter then the ZX one, and guess what, i don't need to shim the cover plate if i use that one. I havn't tried riding it with the ruckus boss yet, but just noticed that the kick starter didn't bind.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by trains420 »

becasue it pushes the variator ramped part, against the ramp plate, and the front gear pulley starter thing. it sits there. belt rides on one side. when it shifts down, it needs to go to the bottom. you can't put any other belt on the zx rear pulley except for one that is 18mm wide. you can, but it will be low in the rear pulleys. so you will have a small circle, in front, and a medium circle in back. turning with the power of the motor the small circle to turn the medium circle say a 1/4 turn with one turn of the small circle. it's easy to turn that small distance. for the engine.
ok get it?
no you don't i'll keep goign on about the transmission then.
then it will shift, and you'll have a big circle turning a small circle, but not a real big circle. cause when that circle was small, you had slack. it would of flopped. the belt.
so to make it tight, your belt was fitting like that. so a sorta big circle now with the power behind it is turning the small circle. it turns 1 time and turns the wheel, or back pulleys connected to teh tire, and the rest of the gears, in your gearbox, 1 3/4 a turn. yay. so one revolution of your crank, which is in the crankcase and connected to the piston, and when the piston goes all the way up and down and back to teh top again, that crank has turned once, turning the bolt. so for one rpm, you have got, as long as the clutch was engaged, 1 3/4 turn of your clutch. clutch is what engages the tire.
i mean do it, go for it. but it's the whole point of the transmission.
the medium circle in the back, before it shifts is what the engine has to turn at take off. when you have to push your big mass and the weight of the scooter, your engine, everything else, the pockets full of keys, on. so to turn the wheel like a half of a turn, if the clutch was at 1:1 ratio with the tire, and 1 turn of the clutch was 1 turn of the wheel. some weird gears tehre, it would take your engine, a lot of power to turn the wheel, and get you goign. understand. 4 rpms of turning that wheel 1 turn and that's a lot of pushing. try to push it yourself if you don't like your engine.
but put the right belt, and use the drive boss, then the belt in the front pulleys is at teh bottom. the belt at the back, is at the top of the back pulleys. you have one small circle where the engine is, and 1 big circle, 8 turns of the front is 1 wheel turn, at 1:1 gear ratio of the clutch and the wheel. less work, half the power to turn it. 8 rpms is 1 turn of the wheel, and it will shift sometime. and you have the full length of the belt being used. if you put it together you'd figure it out. the zx belt, would go over the top of the front pulleys, not able to go down in it.
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

trains420 wrote:becasue it pushes the variator ramped part, against the ramp plate, and the front gear pulley starter thing. it sits there. belt rides on one side. when it shifts down, it needs to go to the bottom. you can't put any other belt on the zx rear pulley except for one that is 18mm wide. you can, but it will be low in the rear pulleys. so you will have a small circle, in front, and a medium circle in back. turning with the power of the motor the small circle to turn the medium circle say a 1/4 turn with one turn of the small circle. it's easy to turn that small distance. for the engine.
ok get it?
no you don't i'll keep goign on about the transmission then.
then it will shift, and you'll have a big circle turning a small circle, but not a real big circle. cause when that circle was small, you had slack. it would of flopped. the belt.
so to make it tight, your belt was fitting like that. so a sorta big circle now with the power behind it is turning the small circle. it turns 1 time and turns the wheel, or back pulleys connected to teh tire, and the rest of the gears, in your gearbox, 1 3/4 a turn. yay. so one revolution of your crank, which is in the crankcase and connected to the piston, and when the piston goes all the way up and down and back to teh top again, that crank has turned once, turning the bolt. so for one rpm, you have got, as long as the clutch was engaged, 1 3/4 turn of your clutch. clutch is what engages the tire.
i mean do it, go for it. but it's the whole point of the transmission.
the medium circle in the back, before it shifts is what the engine has to turn at take off. when you have to push your big mass and the weight of the scooter, your engine, everything else, the pockets full of keys, on. so to turn the wheel like a half of a turn, if the clutch was at 1:1 ratio with the tire, and 1 turn of the clutch was 1 turn of the wheel. some weird gears tehre, it would take your engine, a lot of power to turn the wheel, and get you goign. understand. 4 rpms of turning that wheel 1 turn and that's a lot of pushing. try to push it yourself if you don't like your engine.
but put the right belt, and use the drive boss, then the belt in the front pulleys is at teh bottom. the belt at the back, is at the top of the back pulleys. you have one small circle where the engine is, and 1 big circle, 8 turns of the front is 1 wheel turn, at 1:1 gear ratio of the clutch and the wheel. less work, half the power to turn it. 8 rpms is 1 turn of the wheel, and it will shift sometime. and you have the full length of the belt being used. if you put it together you'd figure it out. the zx belt, would go over the top of the front pulleys, not able to go down in it.
Yeah i know how the trans works in general, all i asked is what happens when you use a smaller drive boss in the front, what happens. Wheelman can you give insight?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by trains420 »

trains420 wrote: if you put it together you'd figure it out. the zx belt, would go over the top of the front pulleys, not able to go down in it.
there you go i did put your answer as to what would happen. i wrote everything on how it goes.
as for insight, the whole description, and how the thing works altogether, should give it to you.

more info though, from me on it. here goes. the main drive boss. that little cylinder thing none of you care about throw it in your garbage can right now, does't matter belt sizes and other stuff. what does that little thing space out. the ramp plate from the starter gear pulley, right.. throw the rest of the stuff away. it will show you that. that's whats spaced out. what is angled, that your belt rides on... your belts angled, it's called a v-belt. variable belt what every lawnmower guy told me. what's angled.. the starter gear, pulley, right, and the pulley right. pulley is locked to the ramp plate with the notches in it. and when theres enough rpms, teh roller weights, come out, and the inside of the pulley is angled to have it push away from that ramp plate, that is held by the drive boss. it will keep going away until, it hits the starter gear pulley. and you have an angle at the top a v angle at the top of your pulley, from the variator, and the starter gear pulley.
well and the variator doesn't slide off of where it's hooked onto the ramp plate at. so you got two angles, spaced by a spacer. that space is also somewhere else in the whole parts your looking at.
it's the distance from the ramp plate and the pulley plops on it, to the starter gear pulley.
is what that distance is.
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

I don't see how the drive boss length would make the belt go over the front pulley. Can anybody else explain? I can't understand run-on paragraphs.

The only thing I can think of is that if the boss is shorter it would cause the pulley to be closer to the engine and cause a mis-alignment of the front and rear pulleys.???
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Trafficjamz »

The boss is longer, so the belt can fit all the way down (further in) on the front pully. I think that is how it works
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Trafficjamz wrote:The boss is longer, so the belt can fit all the way down (further in) on the front pully. I think that is how it works
Perfect, that makes sense. thanks a bunch!
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by evilone »

Trafficjamz wrote:The boss is longer, so the belt can fit all the way down (further in) on the front pully. I think that is how it works
Now that was simple huh?
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Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

lol, exactly answered my question. :)
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
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