ZX trans how-to

Does your Spree/Elite already run great, and you're trying to make it quicker/faster? Need a monster motor swap? Discuss your ideas here.

Moderator: Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Keoni
Goped
Goped
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:19 pm
Location: Honolulu, Oahu, HI.
Contact:

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Keoni »

HOPE THIS WRITE-UP HELPS AND MAYBE SOME OTHERS CAN PUT IN THEIR 2 CENTS. (1)BY THE WAY, COVER WILL NEED SHIMMED TO CLEAR OR GET THICKER GASKET FROM ONE OF THE MODELS LISTED. I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS SWAP RENDERS THE STARTER INOP SINCE THE DRIVE PULLEY IS FURTHER AWAY FROM STOCK LOCATION, I DO KNOW THE KICKER WILL WORK. THE ZX DRIVE BOSS IS 1/8th INCH LONGER AND YOU WILL END UP WITH 1/4 INCH WORTH OF SPLINES ON THE CRANK.

EDIT 12/4/09 (2)If using Sym dd50 pulleys it is recommended to add 4-6 spot welds to reinforce weld, i had 8 spot welds done today. I think the Kymco pulleys have a good weld and shouldn't need reinforced. So...even if rear pulleys are Chinese you can remedy that!
(1) The cover needs shimming because the crank isn't cut for a ZX trans and the electric start gear needs to be changed to a ZX one or add a washer to the back of the starter gear to move it out because you'll have a lot of play since the cover will be move out. The nut sticks out once again because the crank isn't cut for a ZX trans. Most, if not all aftermarket cranks are made for a ZX trans and will solve most of these issues.

(2) I never had to weld any of my rear drives, most rear drives break because of a to stiff center/compression spring, this is a problem that isn't happening as much now days as it used to because people finally learned running super stiff center springs aren't good for your trans. Also, the welded rear pulleys still break.
VTCycles.com for performance parts.
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Wheelman,
I'm confused about something. You said that the stock belt and front pulley have a 30 degree angle on them. In this thread people have said you can use a Ruckus variator; however, on this ebay auction for a polini ruckus variator it says it has a 25 degree angle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/POLINI-V ... ccessories

Is this auction wrong? or are people suggesting using the ruckus variator in error because it has the wrong angle?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

Neither. The listing states the ramp plate has a 25-degree angle. The pulley face is 30 degrees. I have that very Variator. It's worth the price.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

Neither. The listing states the ramp plate has a 25-degree angle. The pulley face is 30 degrees. I have that very Variator. It's worth the price.
Oh, so the variator pulley face is 30 deg but the ramp plate that moves up with the rollers is 25 deg?

Can you explain how having a higher ramp plate angle or lower ramp plate angle would affect acceleration/top end? Also, are most ramp plate angles 25 deg like this one?

Also is this variator larger then the stock elite or dio zx variator for more possible top end as people were implying earlier in this thread?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

The steeper ramp plates like the SEF are "shiftier". When the engine RPM decreases the vario jumps down a gear quicker. Not so great for steady cruising. Better for quick corner exits and cat-and-mouse dicing on twisty courses. Harder on has mileage.

The flatter 25 and 15 degree plates tend to hold a taller "gear" longer at cruising speed. Polini has the formula nicely dialed in.

The Polini for Ruckus measures 94.2 mm. Bigger than stock Ruckus and a lot bigger than the 87mm Elite/Aero pulleys. I have an off-brand 97mm one too. The limiting factor becomes the outer fixed sheave, unless you get a Kymco or SYM. These have a larger usable face and the kickstarter castle that is a bit more recessed to help the clear the driven kicker gear when using the longer ZX boss.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Ugh! I typed up a huge post on my blackberry and it didn't work.....

Anyways, is there any advantage to the generic 97mm one over the polini 94.? Variator? With the kymco drive pulley will the extra 2.?mm be utilized?


Also what kind of degree do the shiftier SEF variators have?

Ohh and is an 01 elite like mine an 87mm like the older elite/aero?
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

The Polini works better than the giant Off-Brand 97 on my application. Theoretically the bigger front face will give you a taller gear, but even the Kymco/DD50 face can't seem to make use of the entire diameter.

The SEFs look like they're angled at 30 or even 35 degrees, but one would have to measure.

The 87mm figure came from an '01 Elite, and I believe the diameters are the same as the Aero and AF05 early Elites. Oddly, there is a suggestion that the 05 engine case has a bit more room than the 16 for adapting big pulleys - recent thread. Less metal-munching necessary to make room for 94 or even 97mms?
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Is everything off the AE05 case the same as the AF16? So I can bolt all my 01 Elite stuff, exhaust, wheel, carb, engine mounts ect?

Thanks wheelman.

P.S. I just bought the complete kymco zx driven parts, drive pulley, drive boss, 2 belts (long and short). I've also gotta order the 1000, 1500, and 2000 clutch center springs and 4 sets of clutch springs. I've got a stock scooter but am seeking great acceleration and 45-50 top end. Then I'm gunna do a complete writeup about all of this stuff for others with no power upgrades searching for the best trans setup.

Power upgrades will come later this summer I bet.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

As far as I know, the Aero clutch shoes are heavier than the later Elites, but everything fits physically. I can help you with the blue spring triplets - see WTB/FS. Ah Still Gots Dem Blues!
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

so i ordered all this
1 x ZX 50 - DRIVE FACE BOSS - 22105-KCX-W000 $20.01
1 x ZX 50 - PULLEY, DRIVE ASSEMBLY - 2301A-KCX-9000 $97.64
1 x ZX 50 - FACE DRIVE - 22102-GAH-E100 $27.75

from kymcopartsonline.com on April 5th, they said estimated delivery from ups was April 9th, its april 13th and still have not received anything. Havn't even gotten a tracking number so I called the number plastered on their site, Toll Free 1-800-238-3772 and got their answering machine where the guy said thanks for calling scootershop.com, blah blah. I left my info, waiting for a call back.

i checked scootershop.com, the site looks legit, says its been around since 1995. I'll let you guys know what i find out. I bet they drop shipped something and it'll take 21 days or some crap, but just a heads up in doing this ZX conversion, plan on some wait time in ordering from kymcopartsonline.com

P.S. My 2 belts I ordered (one coming from Taiwan) have all been delivered. I made the orders all on April 5th
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Good news, one of my parts was on back order, they just got it now and are upgrading my shipping to priority and refunding the 16 bucks I paid for shipping. So that's cool. Still dumb I had to call to get this info instead of them calling me, but whatever.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

GRRRRR

So i ordered the kymco zx rear pulley and clutch and front pulley face and front boss. I grinded for about 2 hrs on the stupid case, clearance looks good, put the 669 belt on, go to fire it up and the kickstarter binded up on me. I thought with all kymco parts it wouldn't do this?

guess i'm going to the store to get some washers to shim it. I'm just afraid if the washers are too big the belt might come into contact with them.

UGH!!!
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

You can run the Sym DD50 cover without thick gasket/shim washers, but the Honda needs to move a hair outward. 3 Thin-ring washers in ~6mm and a couple in ~10mm to fit around the 2 locating dowels and you're done. (Y'know, ya coulda bought my groovy Sym cover a couple weeks ago... :) ) Glue the washers to the cover or the crankcase and you won't have to fiddle so much with them every time you swap rollers. Have a look inside the front Honda cover for possible belt foul issues, just in case. I strongly recommend you leave the rear half-cover off.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
User avatar
steffen707
Elite
Elite
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:41 am
Location: Central, WI

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by steffen707 »

Wheelman-111 wrote:Greetings:

You can run the Sym DD50 cover without thick gasket/shim washers, but the Honda needs to move a hair outward. 3 Thin-ring washers in ~6mm and a couple in ~10mm to fit around the 2 locating dowels and you're done. (Y'know, ya coulda bought my groovy Sym cover a couple weeks ago... :) ) Glue the washers to the cover or the crankcase and you won't have to fiddle so much with them every time you swap rollers. Have a look inside the front Honda cover for possible belt foul issues, just in case. I strongly recommend you leave the rear half-cover off.
Well why didn't you tell me you had a trick Sym cover for sale? :p

Any place sell these covers? I got the washers for now, but i want a more stock finish, also, does the electric start work with the sym cover?

And I thought when you did all your research about the front pulley having less protrusion of the castle, that you said with the kymco one not sticking out so much you wouldn't have to shim? Maybe i'm wrong.
87 Honda Spree,
XX Yamaha YSR50
92 Yamaha Jog -> Stock.
05 Kymco Super 9-> My cruiser
xx Honda Gyro -> Man I gotta fix that.
98 Honda Elite S -> corsa, pg long, 24mm oko, ct chrome, ZX trans w/ ruckus variator, trailtech vapor gauges
User avatar
Wheelman-111
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 11319
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:09 pm
Location: Deepinnaharta, Texas

Re: ZX trans how-to

Post by Wheelman-111 »

Greetings:

From memory, ( :surprise: !!) my statement was "... the Kymco pulley will require less (maybe NO?) shimmage. It's in there if you care to look it up. Stick a flat washer behind your Bendix gear too, and then check that the teeth engage fully when the Bendix throws out its gear. It needs less than a mm thick to engage on mine.
Wheelman-111
Most of my money is spent on scooterparts. The rest is just wasted.
"ISO": '03 Vespa ET4 Malossi187 74MPH
Flash 9: 2001 Elite SR Contesta 72 ZX Tran, 9:1 Gears, Stock Airbox/Carb/Pipe 58.8 MPH
Punkin: 2010 Vespa/Malossi S78, 61MPH
Post Reply