86 Spree swap from an 87 Elite! Need some input

[nickisaninja]

I ground the Elite mount down and fit into the stock spree mount location and it's solid in there.
I need to fab a mount for the upper rear shock mount. Anyone have any ideas? I want it to sit slightly forward when compressed with my own weight so it's completely vertical at near full compression.

The voltage regulator seems like a good place. What have you all done?
Also where do I get fuel lines for it? I need some longer ones. Stores preferably I was thinking auto parts but they are vacuum line sized so will that work anyway?
Also I'm using the Spree's old carb and intake air box. Will this work fine? Any jetting differences needed? The Elite throttle cable was seized so I ordered another one. In the mean time the oil pump will be zip tied to the WOT position.
Elite rear brake works and I did all the wiring fine. It's a pretty straightforward swap.
Now! What can be done to make this thing faster? Is there anything I can modify for near free before the motor gets its final bolt in? There are a lot of hills in my area so I was wondering if the variator can be modified to include a broader gear range like more power from a dead stop and lower rpms at cruise.

Load me up with info guys! This spree I got is in really good condition and I'm looking forward to make it a little more powerful.

[bradthreee]

WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

NOW GO DO SOME READING: http://www.hondaspree.net/phpBB3/viewto ... =16&t=6536

Sorry for yelling

[nickisaninja]

Will the Spree's carb work fine on this motor?
It bolts up fine. That's half the battle!

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

Welcome!

The Spree carb has some important external physical differences compared to the Aero/Elite PA-Series carbs. The most obvious is the bystarter location on the other side of the throat. That shouldn't be an issue.

The Spree and SE/SA carbs also share the Main jet configuration - a threaded insert without a "mushroom" cap. Honda-san has a couple of different Part Numbers, but 99101-187-0**0 seems to work for me. The stars are the size designation.

Where there may be an important difference is in the size of the Pilot hole. That's right, there's no replaceable insert. The Pilot is cast-in to the carb body. I suspect the Spree/SB PA carbs' Pilot may be smaller. If so, that's an important difference, as the engines on the Variated models are capable of higher RPM. This is even more true if you add a Big-Bore Kit and thus increase displacement.

You can "work around" this issue by richening the Idle Mixture screw - turning it in more reduces the air entry, thus richening the mixture. What I don't know is if this will be enough. An engine produces most of its heat at higher RPM and throttle opening. The problem arises when the throttle closes. With only the Pilot circuit feeding a cooling fuel charge during coast-down, the cylinder can rapidly heat up if that Pilot is too small.

Proceed with caution if you decide to go with the Spree carb. If you do a lot of work to the SE block, it may be worth investing in a real SE/05 or SA/16 PA-Series carb.

[Bear45-70]

The pilot hole size has nothing whatsoever to do with what high RPM the engine turns. It has to do with low speed only and on the PA series of carb has no effect above 1/4 throttle. So Wheelman, how can it posibly have any effect on WOT operation?

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

The Bear is correct in his assertions, but should take care to re-read:

The problem arises when the throttle closes. With only the Pilot circuit feeding a cooling fuel charge during coast-down, the cylinder can rapidly heat up if that Pilot is too small.

The heat generated during high speed operation saturates the bore. Coasting down from that high RPM continues to generate the heat from compression and internal friction. If the pilot is too small, temps can become critical due to the lean mixture. This is worsened by a reduction in oil supply on throttle-controlled pumps.

[nickisaninja]

I ordered an SE50 carb off ebay.

That should be here in a couple days! So! What do I do about filtering the air into the motor now? Should I trouble myself finding an se50 air box or should I throw on a universal air filter?
Would I have to change jets with a different filter?

Total 2cycle and carb newb here.

[Wheelman-111]

Greetings:

If using an inline Pod filter such as UNI, the Main jet should be increased a size. An 88 should work, but watch the spark plug and consider a CHT gauge if you plan mods/tuning in the future. 99101-187-0880 might be in the carb you get from eBay. If not, that's the Honda part number.

[nickisaninja]

Greetings:

If using an inline Pod filter such as UNI, the Main jet should be increased a size. An 88 should work, but watch the spark plug and consider a CHT gauge if you plan mods/tuning in the future. 99101-187-0880 might be in the carb you get from eBay. If not, that's the Honda part number.

what size pod filter can I run and where can I get one on the cheap?
I'll order an 88 if you tell me where to get one!
It's a se50p carb so it's probably jetted like a turtle. My scoot donor is a se50p motor but am already on the move for derestricting it.

[nickisaninja]

Also I don't want to keep the restricted exhaust and I'm not spending close to $50 on a stock aero exhaust

I'm going to try and weld my spree muff in place of the restriced muff and cut as much restricted muff exhaust pipe off as possible while retaining working exhaust angles.

[nickisaninja]

another thing I'm getting a LOT of smoke on startup with the elite motor. Could it be gravity feeding oil into something?

I ran a compression test using the electric starter. I pulled 72lbs on the se50p and 75lbs on the spree motor. Something's gotta be wrong with my gauge but does the se50p motor have a lower compression ratio?

[martynkim]

Also I don't want to keep the restricted exhaust and I'm not spending close to $50 on a stock aero exhaust

I'm going to try and weld my spree muff in place of the restriced muff and cut as much restricted muff exhaust pipe off as possible while retaining working exhaust angles.

The problem with the SE 50P muffler is not the muffler itself but, the head pipe's diameter. It has less flow due to this and restricts it. Your Spree muffler will not help you.

[Trafficjamz]

I ground the Elite mount down and fit into the stock spree mount location and it's solid in there.
I need to fab a mount for the upper rear shock mount. Anyone have any ideas? I want it to sit slightly forward when compressed with my own weight so it's completely vertical at near full compression.

The voltage regulator seems like a good place. What have you all done?

The spot where the voltage regulator is located, is just about perfect. You will have to move the regulator of course.



This bolt goes all the way through the frame. FYI Don't try to just weld a bolt to the frame in this spot!


If you have any questions, just ask
I do have a se50 air box for cheap if you need one.

[nickisaninja]

I got everything in and running. The problem now is, this scooter is now slower than a stock spree.

Is the Se50p's restriction that bad? I used to be able to bomb 35mph downhill on the spree now this barely hits 25.

SE50 carb running through the spree intake. Also it's pushing A TON of blue smoke out the exhaust and has no top end.

[tw39515]

have you removed ring from back of variator and cleaned the grease out. also the se50p has a different ramp seen below.
on left se50 on right se50p.