Blasphemy- CH250 Motor into Elite 50

[nacree]

So I was looking at my spare CH250 motor today and took some quick measurements. It looks like it would be possible to stuff the CH250 into the Elite 50 frame. That motor is capable of 65+ MPH in a Helix or Elite 250 and I think it would be a lot of fun in the smaller scooter.

While tuning 2strokes is fun/challenging the CH250 would give easy performance and good acceleration in a smaller bike- what do you guys think?

-Nathan

[Trafficjamz]

Is that liquid cooled?

[nacree]

Yep.

That is part of the enhanced reliability. Adding a radiator and plumbing it is not a big deal. I already have a rad from a CH150 in anticipation of getting a water-cooled BBK.

[Bear45-70]

If the CH150 radiator is not as big as the 250's, you will have overheating issues.

[DaylightDies]

If the CH150 radiator is not as big as the 250's, you will have overheating issues.

Depends, If he keeps the radiator cool (if its smaller) he should be fine.
There shouldnt be much of a difference between the 150 and 250s radiator, if any.

[Bear45-70]

If the CH150 radiator is not as big as the 250's, you will have overheating issues.

Depends, If he keeps the radiator cool (if its smaller) he should be fine.
There shouldnt be much of a difference between the 150 and 250s radiator, if any.

Well let's just think about your little statement "There shouldnt be much of a difference between the 150 and 250s radiator, if any". First it shows you know next to nothing about engine cooling. A 250 has a 66% bigger displacement than a 150, which means at a minimum of 50% more heat to dissipate. So either the 150's radiator is way oversized or the 250 is always on the edge of overheating. Both of which I doubt and on top of that they have different part numbers.

[nacree]

Bear,

Once again I don't understand why you have to behave the way you do. Lets look at your premise- I have a Yamaha Morphous- 250cc. I have a Yamaha Majesty-400cc. The have the exact same radiator. The percent difference in engine size is very similar to that of the 150 and 250. Both bikes run at normal temperature. So that goes to show that we can't just make assumptions about cooling capability or need based on radiator size.

Beyond a basic level of cooling required by the engine at static idle the biggest impact on the sizing of the radiator is engine load (assuming there is adequate airflow). Since the smaller bike will present less of a load to the engine under most if not all circumstances then it might do fine.

The point I am trying to make is that it will likely have to be a decision made based on empirical observations; try the Ch150 rad and see if it works. If it does not then putting in a CH250 radiator is not a big deal

Why do you have to berate and belittle people constantly? You always go right for the throat and accuse someone of not having any knowledge on whatever subject. How about learning some tact and if you think they are wrong point out assumptions that you believe are incorrect and provide reasons why those are incorrect.

I don't think anyone here has to be mollycoddled but if you said the things you say on this board to my face I would probably knock you on your butt. All I am asking for is a little civility.

[Bear45-70]

Bear,

Once again I don't understand why you have to behave the way you do. Lets look at your premise- I have a Yamaha Morphous- 250cc. I have a Yamaha Majesty-400cc. The have the exact same radiator. The percent difference in engine size is very similar to that of the 150 and 250. Both bikes run at normal temperature. So that goes to show that we can't just make assumptions about cooling capability or need based on radiator size.

Beyond a basic level of cooling required by the engine at static idle the biggest impact on the sizing of the radiator is engine load (assuming there is adequate airflow). Since the smaller bike will present less of a load to the engine under most if not all circumstances then it might do fine.

The point I am trying to make is that it will likely have to be a decision made based on empirical observations; try the Ch150 rad and see if it works. If it does not then putting in a CH250 radiator is not a big deal

Why do you have to berate and belittle people constantly? You always go right for the throat and accuse someone of not having any knowledge on whatever subject. How about learning some tact and if you think they are wrong point out assumptions that you believe are incorrect and provide reasons why those are incorrect.

I don't think anyone here has to be mollycoddled but if you said the things you say on this board to my face I would probably knock you on your butt. All I am asking for is a little civility.

Let's just look at how stupid your premise was. But of course you will never admit that, so you will never learn. I berate out and out stupidity because it deserves no better. I would say what I said to your face and you wouldn't do a d*** thing about it and I promise you you would not have ball enough to even swing at me much less be man enough to knock me anywhere. I you want civil, quit making stupid statements!

[nacree]

Exactly the response I expected.

I proved your premise wrong that engines with a 60% plus capacity difference will necessarily have different sized radiators. You cannot prove that the CH150 radiator will not adequately shed heat from the CH250 engine in the application that I am taking about. In truth only experimenting with the setup will show if it will work. And we have not even addressed forced air cooling (by fan etc.) not just the airflow from the vehicle moving through the air. A larger fan or a fan that runs more often can dramatically change cooling.

You do what many non-engineers do and apply common logic to the situation- if one is good two is better. And when you get riled by logic that you cannot defeat you throw up some twenty year old pictures from some six cylinder drag boat that you ask us on faith to believe that you worked on (I don't care whether you drove it). Even if you did work on the drag boats single cylinder air-cooled scooters have almost nothing in common with a water-cooled two-stroke drag boat than only runs at idle (most likely very high idle) and at WOT. Scooters must operate over an nearly infinite range between idle and WOT, not to mention reliably start from cold and function for years at a time.

The sum total of the advice I see you give consists of "clean the carb" or "change the plug". Well thank god you are here to share with us those hard-won insights from your vast repository of two-stoke tuning knowledge. You have never shared any specifics about what setups have worked for you (jets, exhaust, bbks, gears etc.) other than repairing stock scooters. I guess that explains the clean the carb and change the plug mantra.

If you ego was not so terribly inflated and fragile I would tell you to take some cues from Wheelman. He shares real world tuning experience on scooters- and admits when he is wrong. His amiable manner and self depricating humor means that he is orders of magnitude more likely to be listened to than a grumpy old has-been, or never-was as the case may be.

You have now reached the level or irrelevance that I attribute to one "Maddog" and hence I will ignore you from now on.

P.S. Love the internet tough guy routine- goes over about as well as the internet two-stroke tuning expert. I am highly impressed by your threatening typewritten manner especially when I know you are secure in the knowledge that you will never have to make good on those threats.

Later,

Nathan
Albuquerque NM

[Bear45-70]

Son, I'm a disable veteran from the the Vietnam era. I've lived a long time like I am and I suspect I will continue to live until the big man up stairs calls me. But it won't be because some big talker here on earth thinks he can take me or even tries to, been there done that. Think about it, I'm 63 years old and still here. There must be a reason. Oh and I am easy to find, if you can't find me from my home town listed in my profile and a phone book or google, I will give you my address. Come on down and give it a whirl.

[evilone]

I literally forgot what this post is about!

[Bear45-70]

Read the title.

[evilone]

You want to start with me now! I did read the title after reading the drama.

[Bear45-70]

You want to start with me now! I did read the title after reading the drama.

No, I was being smart mouthed and should have tacked on a smilie. But this nitwit is accusing me of being an internet tough guy when he was the one to start the threating bodily harm. I just gave him a chance to back it up, which you will notice he just tried to make me into the internet tough guy. He is not only stupid but a coward. I have a low tolerance for both.

[ae86guy]

im with NACREE try the rad keep a eye on the temps if they start to go high then add a fan or the larger rad its worth experimenting dont listen to that * head bear you really are a A S S H O L E internet tough guy is right id bet your mouth aint that big when your person to person and if so how many broken noses have you had must be a few if i was in the usa i would make the effort to come to your house and hear that big fu cking mouth of yours and and split it in two this aint a tough guy act its fact i have no bones knocking you out no matter how old and grey you are and believe me when i say i can with 6 national cage fighting titles and two international titles your old * wouldnt have a chance